Notary and Lawyer are two different professions here. On top of that it is regulated very differently from canton to canton.
Here I found a good overview of the Swiss system:
http://www.crus.ch/information-progr...sions.html?L=2
I'm not an expert (especially not on the legal system of the UK ;-) but yes, I do think it is different here.
We bought (and later sold) a house in the U.S. where we had a lawyer and the seller/buyer had their own lawyer. Both sales were, in my opinion, a bit adversarial.
When we bought our apartment here, as per the usual in Luzern (rules are dependent on the local area), we shared the cost of the notary. At the closing there was the seller, the notary, our banker (mortgage) and ourselves. The experience was fairly friendly (except our banker was a bit annoyed with our bank in the U.S. who took their sweet time transferring the money, but that how banks are). There was no need for us to have a separate real estate attorney.
The apartment is 50 % owned by myself and 50 % owned by my husband. We have two sets of papers, and we get separate tax bills, etc., but the mortgages (first and second) are in both names.
I echo the others, please consult with a lawyer (or maybe the notary can help you) who specializes in such things. And make a will at the same time, if you haven't already done so.
Not true for California and Nevada at least.
We hired a lawyer, to represent us as the buyers, when we bought property in Switzerland. The Notary, though officially a "lawyer", only ensures that the transaction is legal but isn't looking out for best interests of either party.
Yes, absolutely it is possible. If you are married, and as a husband and wife you buy a house together that you intend to live in as husband and wife, you don't need a lawyer.
In the USA you need an attorney for buying toilet paper, not to mention using it. You need title agencies for all kinds of deals. You find them on every other corner. In Switzerland, I've never seen one in 60 years. I don't even know what a title agency is in German.
In my ONE purchase of a house here, the notary (costs split 50-50 between buyer and seller) acts for both of us and had one meeting with us and the vendors, we (my wife and I) signed and it was a done deal. he did insist that the contract was translated from German (which I mostly understood) into English "Legalese" which I didn't understand at all (Native English translator).
AFAIK if the property is in joint names then this gets split down the middle come divorce time, heaven forbid. Luckily this is not an issue for us and I hope will remain so - but if the property is in joint names then this is the domain of the divorce court to settle it. The sale of the property is to BOTH of you - both of you sign, as equal partners.
As I said, not an expert, just done it once. The UK system I am more familiar with (three time loser) and you have two adversarial lawyers, one on each side, and each tries to make things difficult and bump their bills up, charging you CHF50 for each two minute phone call.
Joke: Why did Washington get all the lawyers, and San Fransisco get all the gays? Because San Fran got the first pick
This response probably addresses the OP's dilemma best. It is not the buying of property that is the problem, but what may happen in the future.
For example in the event of the death of her boyfriend, his children may well have first claim on the house if his will does not specify otherwise - and maybe even if it does. Your local notar will also be able to advise on this as well as property purchase. Alternatively I have sought legal advice on my will from the legal department of my bank (ZKB). CHF250 for an hour's consultation was well worth it...
There is absolutely no need to consult a lawyer before purchasing a house in Switzerland. We did all our research online or by word of mouth, gaining some very valuable advice on this very forum.
The 1st time we even met anyone "legal" (the notary) was to sign the contract.
YOU ARE RIGHT.
Hey, Thanks. The Contract Will Be In Both Names, So I And Him Will Have The Right To 50%. In The Future We Are Going To Get Married. Still I Was Not Sure I Need A Will. I Think It Is A Good Idea, To Protect Myself Before We Get Married.
I Really Appreciate Your Help Becasue All Those Disscussion Did Not Help Me At All.
Thanks
Do I understand it correctly ...
I am happy you do, becasue English is not my first language and some times I don't really deliver what I am trying to deliver.
thanks
and for the Forum: I am thinking to follow some of the advices and make a will. Now , as also my first time on this area....which situations I should think about to be cover in the will? Just to have an idea.
thanks
I created a new thread about the discussion on the will here .
List of Notaries in ZH here .
( Google Search link here )
Just to add my cautionary tale for the benefit of future buyers:
From my own experience, I would recommend that one consult an attorney when purchasing property in Switzerland, especially if you are unfamiliar with Swiss property (and inheritance) law, and are a less than perfectly fluent German speaker. And by that I mean Amtdeutsch, or legal-ese.
Yes, the received wisdom seems to be that one can do this on one's own, that the Notary will make sure that everything is hunky-dory... and in many cases that is true, many sellers are perfectly honest, even a few agents are as well. BUT if the seller or estate agent are not quite above board, someone who is unfamiliar with the process could stand at a serious disadvantage. You are talking about an investment of a million plus - would you invest in the stock market to that amount with out expert advise?
Remember, the estate agent works solely for the seller; he/she is under no obligation to the buyer, even when it comes to giving information.
In the US, there are several levels of protection for the buyer: the buyer's agent, the title search, the independent house inspection, your own attorney fighting in your corner. One does not have such automatic protection here; property purchase in Switzerland is very much caveat emptor .
We kept hearing that 'no one needs an attorney in Switzerland' - in fact, when we mentioned that we wanted an attorney to look over our offer, that the estate agent tried so hard to pooh-pooh the idea should have been our first clue.
So, when we found our house we went it alone. Big mistake.
I am no stranger to property purchase - I've bought and sold several houses in the US. But, my frame of reference was US law - so when reading through the contract I naturally interpreted things with that in mind. Swiss law has it's own quirks - you really need someone with expertise on your side. Most importantly, one needs to understand the things that are not in the contract, but will impact your purchase. You need to know all the questions to ask - In our case, we didn't know what we didn't know.
(Long story short, we did not know that a Gestaltungsplan governed the property. The contract made no mention of this, the owners, the estate agent both claimed that there were no restrictions to use. The Bauamt gave us written notice that there were no restrictions, and Notary was only concerned about the wording of the contract. Well... turns out the person at the Bauamt was wrong - after purchase, when we filed our renovation permit we got a nice 'oh so sorry, but we cannot be held responsible for the mistakes of our staff - and by the way, there are indeed restrictions and you are totally stuffed' letter from them.)
The moral of the story - if this is your first time purchasing property in Switzerland, sometimes you really DO need someone firmly on your side. A few hours of an attorney's time is a small change compared to your million plus investment.
The notary chosen by the seller ensured that we knew what we were buying and what laws/rules were attached to the piece of land. The laws/rechts included that us and our neighbours had limits to how high we could build (not any higher than the existing structure) and that we were allowed to be closer to our neighbour than the standard distance. A Bebauungsplan is also in existence and we did seek an independent advice about the possibility of renovations outside of the plan and were told to forget it. Our neighbours have been going through the process of getting this changed for the past 3 years and i'm happy that it got voted out. Having the piece of mind that nothing can change around your million franc plus purchase is reassuring.
Hi dear, yes I have spoke with a notar and seems that in here children will have the first claim , and we can not change it by a contract or will. What I can do is put myself in a better position by a contract . Then they might no be able to force to sale but they will be able to ask me for money... MUCH BETTER LAW IN THE UK. I dont want to take anybody right away but at least let me have my house until I die, before to ask me for a part!!
I was wander what is the difference to when you married and buy the property later? We cheking how fast can we get married, so we both better protect and we anyway were going to do it later. But if we buy the house first and get married later, the house still stay as self--property.
Also the notar told me that to make the contract , which wil be better than a will because cover more areas, I have to pay 1000 chf, and the contract have to be made by a notar to be valid.
thanks
I would certainly take the advice of a lawyer. Beyond that, I would also speak to a male/female friend or two who have gone that route where it didn't work out. Why take it a step further and have a contract. I would include:
1. How each party gets his/her deposit back via the sale of the property.
2. How profits are to be split, how losses are to be split.
3. What if one party cannot afford to pay? Can a sale of the property be forced? What if the market is bad?
4. How does one split the property/buy out the other party?
After I had answers to all of these questions. I would ask a lawyer to raise others including does the other parties children have a lien on the property if the person (guy) dies? There are bound to be loads of legal issues. Only foolish people save a centime by not consulting the proper authorities. Lots of information can be read online. When you pay for legal and other professional services you are paying for not only the information but the INTERPRETATION and that is what takes years. I am not an attorney. Never will be. But I do know enough to consult one on my business affairs.
uhh... they go to law school...
and then they apprentice under senior lawyers
or was that a trick question??
...And your point is???
My point was never to say: "Never consult a lawyer" but simply read up as much information as you can in advance so as to know where you stand and what your options are. From my experience people who are proactive are usually much more successful than people who sit on their bottoms all day expecting to be assisted.
I think that you will find that most free legal advice articles include the INTERPRETATION too and most of the time are written by lawyers.