I had a friend who was a trained kindergarden teacher.
Guess what she got day in and day out "you don't understand, you're not a parent".... when teaching kids was HER JOB. Such an easy cop-out of a statement.
Yes, Migros and Coop, while not high end per se, are higher end than Aldi. And yes, Manor and Globus are higher end than Migros and Coop. It's all relative.
Very easy cop-out for sure. Along those lines, some full time nannies/aupairs know a lot more about child rearing and even more about the specific children they look after as mum and dad are busy with their lives. Many cases the childless aupairs are also much better educated on the topic as well.
Another example is the male gynecologist. etc. etc.
Well, I added a generous pinch of salt because of the taping the mouth shut comment - sounds completely made up.
Actually, it can often be easier for a non-parent of a child to discipline or get good behavior from a child as they often act differently with the other care taker or teacher. Even between mom and dad. The kids know and see your weaknesses and exploit them...tricky little beings, they are!
There were a few times when we would see the Kindergarten care takers outside of kindergarten and they would be surprised at the kid's stubbornness, or general sour behavior, as that is not how they would behave in Kindergarten, where with so many kids, they all need to stay in line for things to work. Also, the babysitter never has trouble taking the kids to bed, they are always angels and don't complain (although we have babysitters so seldom that I don't have tons of data there!).
Being a parent can be very trying and it is all really trial and error, mistakes will be made along the way. As someone else mentioned, each child can be very different from their sibling, and knowing how to handle one child versus another can be very difficult to figure out. That being said, if my child is being a jerk, disruptive or disturbing someone else I will at the least tell my child about it, ask them to stop, and if needed I would move to another area so the child won't disturb that person. But with 3 kids and sometimes a stroller in tow, that isn't always so easy to do.
I haven't noticed big differences here compared to Germany as someone else had mentioned - but we lived in Southern Germany and maybe that is a difference to what the other poster experience. I do know my sister-in-law had been told off (in Germany) that her kids were making too much noise in the Biergarten - outside, where there was tons of space. So some people are just intolerant regardless of their nationality, and if I think they are being jerks I try and just ignore them. But it usually will really get my blood pressure rising!
They're a funny lot, the Swiss.
A few times I've seen a right grumpychops start looking at DJLP on a tram when she's having a strop. Mostly they'll give a little wave or a smile.
Sometimes it shuts her up. Sometimes it doesn't. They'll usually get a "Bye bye lady!" for their efforts though.
She is quite cute though. It's the parents of ugly kids I feel sorry for.
Well you'll be glad to hear I didn't actually snog them .. but it was a close call ..
Thank you for this comment as I was having a difficulty with how this thread was developing .. as in "speak direct to the child, try to explain what is wrong" etc. And in particular your example of the swimming room locker doors as this has very definitely happened to us (do you swim in Liestal??). My son has an obsessive thing about doors and things that slide and frankly, it is easier to let him open and shut the doors as at least he is in one place whilst I get dressed. A lady did speak to him about how annoying he was being, but of course he just looked at her and carried on. So she (predictably) got angry and then started on me too. I could have physically prevented him but which is better, loud piercing screaming or locker door banging? Yes these are ridiculous things I have to balance in my head every day. Or I could follow the advice of a few contributers to this thread and just not take him out. Well, believe you me I have thought long and hard about this, and decided that, within reason and with regard to places and things we know he will enjoy, we are going to take him out. Oh and the supermarket .. well as he is not yet in school so 100% of the time with me, that just has to be done.
I have now taken to explaining exactly what is wrong with him in an attempt to explain why it is (sometimes) difficult to control him, but you really would be surprised how often I get the reply "well there doesn't look like there's anything wrong with him". Well, there we go.
But rest assured, if he is doing something really out of order (which actually is not very often at all) but I am thinking of the Nicole leg kicking, well, screams or no, I would have stopped that at the first kick. I guess what annoys me is that I go out of my way to consider others but just the tiniest thing freaks some people (standing next to the lift to watch the doors shut at the moment is the most "controversial" thing he does). Frankly, my life would be much easier if people just kept their remarks to themselves but I see from the comments here that this is not realistic.
Done. The life of a child with special needs is quite different from the life of a "normal" child so perhaps my comments don't even belong on this thread.
Caveat; neither my wife or I have had any issues, mainly because our daughter is such a pig-tailed cutie, and likes to smile a lot. As a result, she invariably gets lots of smiles and 'good' comments back. You'd have to be a twisted, bitter saddo not to have your strop defused by her.
However, I was wonder if there is any difference between the parental sexes on this? As a father, am I likely to get less critical comments than my wife because:
a) I'm usually bigger and scarier than the Protagonist, and more likely to be confrontational right back at them?
b) I'm a guy, so my parenting skills are automatically assumed to be non-existent, so people don't bother?
ie do people pick on the parent, simply because they can, and they're closet bullies?
I think I'm the only one who'll understand that abbreviation
Nil won't be impressed that you've stolen the name Princess from her daughter.....
ECB, I don't have the kind of experience you have but I understand how difficult it most be on you. You have all my respect and here is a big fluffeh hug for you.
I wish I could have all you guys follow me round in my every day life .. I think with everyones' help even I would "man up" to my task
I think you've hit it a bit, yes - but I think this holds true for nearly any area of life: Generally speaking, people feel more comfortable giving "friendly advice" to women than to men.
I would only speak to a child directly if I can tell that they are looking for a reaction with their bad behaviour. A friend of mine has an autistic son and when he does weird things, you can see he is totally engrossed in his behaviour, to interfere in any way feels like you are breaking a spell. He also goes berserk for things like not being the person who makes the little green light on the tram door light up - when the doors close, the light goes off and then when you press it before the next stop, it goes green. He MUST do that, otherwise he loses it. It has got better though, before it was a case of you can only take the trams with those doors and he HAD to have the seat next to the door. Try explaining that to someone who has no tolerance for what appears to be a child acting incredibly spoilt. The locker thing also reminded me of the one time I went swimming with them - for him, all the lockers must be closed. So if someone leaves one open, he goes and closes it (thankfully he doesn't slam them) - he won't leave the changing room unless they are all closed. And on it goes.
I think that children that don't fit the norm are in the minority though and, like you said, ecb, that is not what we are talking about. I had pretty bad ADD as a child and my mother thought I was insufferable because I was always talking, always interrupting and saying inappropriate stuff. So I was probably also one of those annoying children, but I didn't fidget, so I would spend a lot of time day-dreaming. Strangely enough, I managed to get the impulsiveness under control around my father because I was terrified of him AND because he made it very clear that he saw me as a mature, well-behaved person - I didn't want to let him down. I still have ADD and it makes it very hard to blot out things going on around me, I always feel stressed because my brain is constantly spinning and screaming children just make me want to scream too.
At the risk of sounding esoteric - my gran, who was a midwife for many years and then worked with the social services in Geneva, always told me that children choose their parents. I found this an odd thing to say because I was having a really hard time with mine. Years later I think she meant that only strong children have difficult parents and that difficult children pick parents who have the strength to deal with them.
I agree with BonBon aswell.
People are very nice, helping me with my pram on the train, give
them something small to eat in the grocery store and so on.
I sometimes get some comments of course, there are strange people everywhere in this world. But from my exprerience Switzerland (german part) is good with kids.
I have never heard anything like your story from schools here.
Totally agree. Based on what I've witnessed, the general population are very tolerant of kids.
Of course there are a few grumpy ole farts everywhere but there are more of the exception. A good example will be an incident I witnessed on the tram once. This mum had a baby in a pram and a child about 4. Both got on the tram and the kid was playing with his toy car, around the rails of the area where the prams go. A couple of stops later, an old man came up and the kid accidentally bumped into him.
Out came a barrage of abuse, first at the kid and at the mum. Not pleasant ones. The mum apologised and bit her tongue, but that git still went on grumbling about inept parents. The poor kid was just confused. Before long, other passengers in the carriage intervened telling the old man to back off. Some even told him to get off the tram.
When he reached his stop, the little kid waved at him and said: "tsssschus!!"
Everyone cracked up.
I've seen many help women with prams off and on the trains without being asked.
However, screaming kids in the middle of tantrums are usually not tolerated. Neither are rude kids.
The point of contention is when parents say to non-parents: "you dont have kids, so you dont understand what its like."
There is even a bigger rift when some of these parents practice zero common sense and thinks the sun shines out of their child's arse - pardon the crude expression.
As a non-parent, I feel sorry for the parents when I see kids kicking it up in public places. I love kids and totally understand that they can be really hard to control. However, there really is a time and place for kids. Letting your child run amok, talking on top of his voice up and down the aisle, disturbing other passengers who are still asleep on a 13 hour flight whilst you are glued to the inflight movie.
(can you tell I've been traumatised by that)?
ecb, we need parents like you!
a society in which kids are discouraged from taking part in everyday life is doomed. be assured that if I'm on a train on my own reading a book (my idea of bliss) I'd rather be "disturbed" half an hour by a lively kid than only see old and grumpy silent faces for the whole trip.
the reason why I tended to leave my "screaming" son at home was that I realised he was simply unhappy to go about shops etc. and that made the whole experience stressful and us both unhappy. I think it was a mixture of him being difficult and me not coping.
in time, things changed and today he's a real sunny boy.
you seem to have a different case: your child is curious about discovering the world, so he must go out and about!
we are all free citizens in a free world, sometimes we tend forget that - and how children are the future of our society.
a friend of mine got really impatient once with someone who was complaining in a (very casual) restaurant about our kids being too fidgety with the chairs: "Just remember that my daughter will be one day paying what is left of your pension!!!" (a very hot issue in germany at the time, as though children were only welcome and good for society for their economic worth)
Anyway, that shut the grumyp guy up.
Actually, they do - more than you've realised.
Thank you for sharing.
I'm with Summerrain. How are most of us, Mums and Dads, Grannies and Granddads, office workers, bank officials, shop assistants... supposed to know what it is like for such a child and their parents (and there are, after all, quite a lot of you) if the parents don't tell us, as you did, a bit about the problems you face everyday? And maybe also explain how we can actually help you to cope with a problem we are lucky enough not to have to contend with ourselves?
And then there are those of us who have one calm and serene child and one who is the complete opposite of calm and serene My boys have both been raised the same way (same rules, consequences, behavioral expectations, etc), yet are completely different because of their characters. Oldest is quiet, bookish, artistic, a self-imposed rule follower, and crys if he even thinks you're upset with him. On the other hand, my youngest can best be described as loud, boisterous, stubborn, and a bit of a bull in a china shop. Even stateside I get comments from well-meaning individuals about the behavior of the youngest one and how he would benefit from being disciplined (often as I'm in the process of disciplining him ). I don't take issue with people giving me their two-cents-worth regarding my childrens' behavior (I am from the South where there really is an "it takes a village to raise a child" attitude), but it does bother me when they insert their opinion when I'm clearly already in the process of disciplining...
You too?
Whilst at Migros yesterday (not my choice for a day of enforced holiday), whilst I was packing, the youngest grabbed the aisle-closed chain, and closed off the checkout to the long queue of customers.
"Ish Fertig!" he exclaimed to the lady at the start of the queue.
The older child would never have done that.
I did have this theory that all of us with two like this were probably sub-conciously doing something different with the second child.
My third though, seems to be like the first so I think it's more nature than nuture.