Are the swiss racist?

Complaints Corner
21
Mark,

Humble apologies for replying to your comment which has nothing to do with racism... I recently found out that the cost of becoming a Swiss citizen is determined by the Gemeinde (should come as no surprise to you!!!!) and that they use the level of integration in the community as the deciding factor and not the length of time you have been here. Furthermore you only need to have a C permit to apply although until you have 10 years under your belt they can say no to your application without reasons. So if you pay your taxes promptly, do fire service, speak fluent Swiss German and are generally known within the community it is cheap - less than CHF 2K...

Richard

22
....or be married 5 years to a Swissie, I believe it's about 400 francs

23
It might be cheaper up front to marry a Swissie but you pay in the long run (Slap) to support the Swiss economy by always buying in Swiss shops(Slap)...

24
I found an interesting article on Swissinfo today about this topic. I think it raises some interesting points and perhaps gives a few valid points to this discussion. I'm reproducing it here because articles in Swissinfo have a habit of disappearing and being very difficult to find.

The original URL is here:

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissin...06&sid=6382785

25

Looks like an interesting read, judging from the snippets I read from a web search. I'll have to head down to Orell Fusseli to see if they have it.

From what I saw I was pretty interested in the way that they put so much emphasis on kids 'looking after themselves' when they are growing up. Might explain a lot of things ranging from the commonplace 'me first' attitudes to the complete lack of concern for safety I see in public places (it's rare to see a lifeguard patrolling at my otherwise excellent local swimming pool, for example).

I can't figure how it tuns out so many conformist people who don't really speak up for themselves, though. Maybe the book will have the answer.

Gav

26
The UN considers the Swiss to be racist. Says a lot to me.

27
Well if you look at the picture in that article, this guy is black, so nobody here will probably pay much attention to it anyway :-) Good on swissinfo for running stories like that - I wonder if it was picked up in any of the other papers?

But it is good to know that Blocher's policies are in no way motivated by racism or xenophobia - perish the thought...

28
this information was actually verbally passed to my wife from someone visiting from the UN.

I do understand that *sometimes* some people who come up against certain situations try to use their minority in the situation. After all, it's "because I'm foreign/black/tall/short/female/etc that you're saying this, isn't it?"

29
Now that you are starting I was once forced to go to an equal rights workshop where inside the first hour I was told that I was racist and a potential rapist because I was white and male. I guess they should try holding these workshops here.

I lasted one hour before they kicked me out for calling the teacher potentially lesbian...

30
Ah, positive discrimination where all good things go to one-legged black barren mentally retarded lesbians from broken homes, who, through the years have suffered anorexia and bulemia and have been denied a Coop Supercard?

31
Hmmm... what a good discussion.

I don't know if anyone here so far is coloured, so I thought I'd add my thoughts.

I've lived in CH-land for 5 years. 2.5 years in Olten saw a few racist attitudes like when my husband (white) and I would go for a walk, 99% of the time, we get wished like everyone else, but occassionally, we'd see the look from right to left, left to right and finally as we're about to pass, a distinct look away with no greeting. In order to prove our existence, we would normally walk right in front of the person and say Gruetzi very loudly (hopefully within earshot of all other passers-by).

The old man next door hated us but we're not sure if it's just us or everyone else. But we treated him the same way (ie. walk right up to him with a loud Gruetzi). But we had plenty of other old people who would come up and try to speak to us (who hardly spoke any german at that time).

Apart from that, I've worked in Bern and in Zurich and to date, I'm with my 4th company - 3 swiss and one multi-national. I've been told by a recruitment agent that there are three things against me when someone sorts out their received job applications:

1. My name that's hard to remember

2. Not speaking german fluently

3. Being female

I've been living in Zurich for almost 3 years. I've not come across anything at all that I would consider racism. I don't perceive any change of attitude towards me but having said that, I should be fair to point out that I dress westernly - albeit with colours (shock horror!) and have a very open demeanour (I've taken to increase the smile percentage in Zurich). So this is a far cry from a black man sitting on the tram with what looks like a scowl on his face. Chances are the seat next to him will be the last one taken.

But don't we all go through some sort of subconcious choice when we have to pick who to sit with on the tram?

Foreigners are relatively new to this country so it's not surprising that they're way behind when it comes to "how to deal with it".

But changes are slowly taking place in this closed society. Just with food, the numbers of foreign eateries has just kept increasing and generally you will find swiss people in these places. Betty Bossi now has come a long way from what used to be around 5 years ago.

Yes, they're blunt and they're not politically correct and I'm not trying to say that their policies aren't racist, but on a society level in Zurich, I've not personally faced any problems as a coloured person.

32
Nanda - if foreigners are new to this country, why are there over 1 million of us?

I can say that my wife's grandfather, an Italian, was treated like a second-class citizen when he sweated blood and tears assisting the build of the Gotthard tunnel.

The issue is, I am sure, greater when your appearance makes you look foreign. In a way, being a white male, you only notice I am foreign as I am smiling

Zurich -vs- The Boonies is another question; the Townies know there's a lot of foreigners here, don't hate them and to be "Swiss", they treat everyone with the same abruptness; in Boonieville, people have more time and courtesy but maybe never met a foreigner in their lives!

33
Hey Lob

This was my point. You cannot look at me and fail to know that I'm foreign. Esp not now after 4 weeks in the sun. But I don't think it's an issue for me at all. No more than anywhere else.

If anything, looking different makes me more recognisable and after a year of working in Schwerzenbach (village outside Duebendorf), everyone greeted me warmer when they met me outside shops etc.. Schwerzenbach also has a significant "overseas" population though.

I'm beginning to wonder if this issue is raised more because the swiss aren't being politically correct or that they're "more" racist than things back home - wherever that is?

34
bloody Aussies everywhere, I say

you do notice a different from The Little Big City to other places, that's for sure.

When I go to Ticino, people are more friendly now I don't have ZH plates. Maybe it's just the Zurchers then?

35
Yesterday I had one of the most shocking experiences in my time here in CH. I am currently looking for Pilates instructors to work in my studio and so, I registered the position with the RAV. Well, yesterday this woman from the RAV called me to inform me that they had someone who was interested in training to be a Pilates instructor and is looking for full time employement in this field.

"Great" I replied expecting to be given the CV or for them to try and arrange an interview. Instead the lady from the RAV responded with

"There's just one problem, she's black."

I was totally speechless! I cannot believe that a potential employer is informed about the race of an applicant as if it somehow mattered! I just cannot get over this blatant racist behaviour from a GOVERNMENT OFFICE!

36
I've always argued that racism is part of official policy in CH. The fact that someone from a government office communicated this so openly to you just demonstrates the fact.

Question is: do such government departments have policies in place to deal with racisim and discrimination, i.e. training courses for their employees, documented ways of dealing with situations etc. My guess is that no such policy or programme exists within the RAF.

If I were you I'd write to the director of the RAF and ask some very hard and direct questions.

In all of the other countries where I have lived (with the exception of Germany) someone would be fired and the possibly taken to court for that, and one of those countries includes South Africa.

37
Yes, I'll be very interested to hear what course of action is possible for this. Can we complaint to someong?

What has been put in place. This would be very interesting to know.

38
Ask any black person you work with about racism in der Schweiz.

Or even South Africans who are caucasian.

A British/Ghanian friend of mine (who left CH) was told "members" only when trying to get into some pubs.. and had to text people already in there to collect him.

SA friends have hate mail.

Look at a busy train - empty seats are often available where the person with dark skin is sitting..

39
All this is inacceptable. Sure. But this takes it to a different level. For someone in an unemployment office who should be aware of equal opportunity laws (they do exist don't they?) - they should respect these laws and treat everyone equally. They should be professional about this.

40
one friend of mine, half-Swiss half-Nigeria, gets stopped all the time.

"Why", I asked him. "I never get stopped. Does it not annoy you?"

Sadly he seems to accept it as a way of life here

And FWIW some of the hottest chicks I've ever dated weren't white. Let's keep that a secret from the Swiss, huh Oh and my wife