The bank is hedging bets here in case of any comeback because the info i
given is ambiguous or unclear
I think therein lies the problem .
No, we are not. We lived in the US between 2011 and 2015 and were therefore US persons at that time (but not anymore). Coming back from the US, however, you still need to file at least one US tax return, which means your new bank will still need to report your banking activities to the IRS for that year.
Do you still maintain US accounts from which you will be receiving US-connected "passive" income (interests, dividends, etc.), or received/will be receiving a distribution (e.g. 401K payout, etc.)? If so, beware that your US tax filing obligations may not be restricted to the one additional US return. I mention this because it was the case for me when I left the US for Switzerland (non US citizen, non CG holder at the time) and still had filing obligations because of that passive income - worth checking. Note I said filing obligations, not tax liability - you may owe nothing, but might still have a filing obligations depending on your particular situation.
Re. Swiss banks - just sign the forms next time. Never assume. The average Joe/Jane is not that valuable of a customer to a Swiss bank vs. the US government penalties for non compliance!
Weren't you just literally teaching me about wrongful assumptions?
Our situation is very clear to everyone at Credit Suisse. They have been calling me every single day since the account was blocked, updating me on the situation, and offering me the possibility to withdraw cash money at the counter, as a way of temporary relief. There is no doubt whatsoever on their side that we are not US persons, it's just the form that needs to be signed for them in order to unblock the account.
That clears things up. They "to say it simple" started a procedure and admit they have been wrong, however it is a procedure which is to hard to interrupt (if even possible for them), and thus the procedure has to be finished (typical Swiss habit), not much you can do about this, and changing this would take much more time than to just go along with the show.
Did you officially renounce your green-card?
Tom
That would be impossible. (since he never had one)
Can a non-American work in the US without a green-card?
Even if employed by a Swiss company they would need one, no?
A Green Card grants permanent residency. You can compare it to a Swiss C permit. There is a broad variety of non-immigrant visa, and that's how we (and most expats) were allowed to live and work in the US. You lose the visa when the contract with the employer is terminated.
Yes, I agree, and my conclusion was the same. I was just wondering if I was better off with another bank, or if there is even such a thing as a Swiss bank that does not shoot first and asks questions later.
Sadly the situation is quite clear. It does not matter what the account holder thinks. It does not matter what Credit Swiss (or any other bank) believes. What is important here, is what the US Government chooses to believe, and what fines they may choose to levy, which drives the banks behavior. Life is not fair.
I still believe the bank could and should have done better. Had they just spent one phone call on this, it would have saved them and myself precious time and money.
Had you just sent back the document with the information, you would have saved them and yourself precious time and money.
I work there, so take this with a grain of salt, but...
... I‘m going to guess the documentation you were sent clearly stated what would happen if you didn‘t return the forms. Mine did. So painful and frustrating or not, it‘s „selber schuld“, and the same would have happened at any other bank. Once they established that you had ties to the US, they *have* to cover themselves by getting formal documentation to establish that you‘re not impacted by FATCA reporting requirements.
You could argue (and I guess are doing so) that they should have called you to chase the documents, but in Switzerland, society is a bit more in the direction of „we‘ve informed you of what we need; it‘s your own responsibility to make it happen.“ It‘s not the babysitting that happens elsewhere, for better or worse.
We have had many a clients' account blocked because of the non return of FATCA forms.
This is despite the fact that NONE of our clients are American or have any connection with the US, and the banks being fully aware of this beforehand. You really won't be better off moving anywhere else.
Lining up the paperwork correctly is the Swiss way - and as mentioned above, you cannot really blame them as the Americans started this stupidity.
Regards
Ian
I think this is the crux. They did. While in some other countries "contacting you" is happily done by phone (leaving one annoyingly without any record of the conversation, unless one then writes a letter detailing what was agreed), from a Swiss perspective, sending you the form already fully constitutes "contacting you", and even in what is considered the very best way possible, with a letter and a form. The way to "contact them back" is to reply with the completed form, or to write a letter (on paper, sent in an envelope) stating why, in your opinion, the form is inapplicable to your situation.
I doubt that any other bank would do it differently, in Switzerland. A letter and a form is the essence of how everyday business is done, here, with anything that is considered serious and must be documented.
Similarly if you ever need to change anything about the way a contract runs, to give notice, to ask for a new product, etc. not just at a bank, you need to post that to them. If it is very important (like giving notice on a contract) in a Registered Letter.
In fact, this forum has many sorry threads along the lines of: "I got a letter but didn't respond[on time] and now x and y is happening to me", or: "I phoned them and now they say they know nothing about it". I believe this is, at least in part, a cultural misunderstanding about how written letters and forms, on paper, are regarded as centrally important in Switzerland. It is perhaps compounded for those who find it a bit intimidating to have to write a letter in a foreign language.
Simply said, the bank needs that document. Also because they have a compliance department where someone cannot tick a box because you didn ́t send in the documents.
And believe me, those box tickers can stop a lot .......
When exactly is registered post supposed to be used?
I would expect that threatening someone to close their account would fall into the "very important" scenario, i.e., suppose that the letter/form sent by the bank went lost.
Problem here is that the recipient is responsible for post gone missing along the road, and I am certain that the bank has a log somwhere which states that this letter was send.
Registered post comes with a cost which would freak out other people who then open a topic on EF on how unreasonable it is to have to pay for this.
In the end registered post is to be used when the law says so, or when the sender wants proof of the letter being properly delivered (Which is not needed here)