It concerns employment history after the date when we left the UK.
I see the first 52 weeks can relevant, so filling the first employer while abroad makes sense but do need a full employment history after so many years, is it necessary?
What about Section 4 of the form: Self-employment/employment abroad, does this need to be filled?
Just the position immediately before leaving the UK & when you arrived in CH
Thanks for this
The form is not phrasing this well , they ask "Are you or will you be working abroad for an employer?", so filling there the first employer could be interpreted as if it's the current employer as well
Also, I'm wondering what is the "right" payment choice, my UK bank accounts are nearly empty and don't want to transfer money there unless I have an approval for class2 contributions after leaving and/or for filling gap years.
My worry is if they approve and the direct debit kicks in without me getting a chance to timely do a transfer. Is "Annual Payment" the best payment option then ?
Read the whole document, not just the form.
Caveat: this is from a form I downloaded and used in 2018
This is a very slow moving affair, so don't worry too much.
Usually they send you a letter accepting the application, along with a amount to pay (back pay) and the detail on how to pay it going forward ( eg 'on 30th of August we will take X from your bank).
For the ongoing payments ( I can't remember exactly how it transpired) however it really isn't an issue, you get plenty of time.
Don't over think it, the process will work.
I did this a few years back. It really was a no brainer. On receiving the increased State pension I also received an annual heating allowance plus £10 for Christmas presents! Amazing that they haven't closed this loophole.
Just to bump.
Took a while but my request to buy back on Class 2 rates was accepted. Just have to call a helpline to make sure it boosts my pension payouts.
Seems to make sense for any Brit expat who paid in 'something' in the UK and are now within 10 years or so of UK state pension age
Just to reiterate, usually you can only buy back 6 years.
Until April 2023 they allow you to buy back to 2006.
This is a bargain (unless the COVid gets you!).
Thanks for all the tips guys and gals,
I did some research a while back on the HRMC web pages and it said that due to the reciprocal agreement between the UK and Switzerland you may not need to pay the backdated NI contributions if you have been paying the equivalent in Switzerland.
I thought back paying NI for missing years was useful for people still in the UK who did not work and pay NI in particular past years.
This is quite a basic question that you guys seem to know the answer to but here goes.
If there is a reciprocal agreement between the UK and Switzerland surely this means paying UK NI for years in Switzerland is money down the drain (you won't get anything in return if you were chipping into the Swiss system?
Isn't there a mechanism whereby if you paid into the CH payroll (NI equiv taxes) etc you can't receive a state pension for that year from both countries at the same time when you are retired?
Or is it the case that if I do pay UK Class 2 NI contributions for missing years when I was resident and employed in CH that I will get a portion of both UK and Swiss state pensions for those years?
Seems a bit illogical if there is a reciprocal agreement, seems to make the reciprocal agreement pointless in this area.
Sorry if I a missing out on something here. I have asked the International Pension Centre. I will post an update when I get a reply (that is comprehendible :-) ).
Basically as I understand it if you work in the UK then Switzerland you would ordinarily get a pension from both countries (pro rata'd to the years of contribution in each).
The agreement is there to cover folk who don't make the minimum years in one of the countries but do in both together - e.g. I have 9 years from the UK, the minimum is usually 10 and so under the agreement I would still get a pension from the UK provided I work at least 1 year in Switzerland. But it would only be 9/35 of the full UK pension.
You are buying extra UK years by making Class 2 NICs. So if I work 2021 in Switzerland and pay for 2021/2022 Class 2 NICs I am getting 2 lots of pension for that one year. So the extra payment is there not to make sure you have a normal pension but so you have a double pension!
2021/2022 is my first year paying Class 2 NICs - so that'd take me to 10/35 of the full UK pension. After 25 more years working here and paying class 2 NICs I could get a full UK pension despite only working for 5 years there. And I would get most of the Swiss pension.
If you pay both Swiss and UK state pensions you will get effectively 2 separate state pensions. One from each country.
You dont have to pay both. This is what HMRC is saying, as if you move back to the UK, you will probably get the full state pension due to the Swiss years you paid,ie the UK pay there bit and more than likely the Swiss years will pay the delta.
For now, and of course it is a gamble if you will get it, but 160 quid a year gamble is worth it I think. You pay both state pensions, you will get both state pensions. It will however be administered by the country you are living in. So stay in Switzerland and the UK will pay Switzerland and Switzerland will pay you the UK portion and the Swiss portion, or vise versa of course
£160 a year it's worth paying at the moment. I've got a feeling though that the system is going to be overhauled at some point in the next few years. There's a social care crisis that has already started, and there's already talk of increasing NI to cover it. Not to mentioned the burgeoning cost of the NHS. Then there'll be a few increases in the age at which one can claim the pension. These holes are likely to be closed at some point so I'm not confident of seeing much of that £160 per year.
Thanks a lot for the info Peaky. :-) My intention is to retire in the UK.
Sorry to be a burden.
So do you know if retiring to my home country, the UK, means that my Swiss years will count towards the UK 35 years (not very generous, but still worth it) state pension and I don't need to pay extra UK NI top ups for years in CH?
And I assume I will also get a pro rata portion of the (more generous) CH state pension for the 20 or so years I was living here?
The Swiss years DO not count towards the 35 years, the Swiss pension is separate.
Ideally you want 35 years UK & whatever Swiss you can get.
If you take the Swiss one first you will need to pay for Swiss Medical insurance whilst living in the UK, once you get the UK pension that requirement will end.
I think the biggest risk is it becomes means tested.
However the UK is very fair and usually announce these things well in advance, and usually have a reasonable cut off.
This is why currently you can buy back to 2006, because they moved the goal posts on the pensions and this allows people to plan accordingly.
Hopefully it becomes means tested for income. I intend to have pretty much zero other than state pension on retirement. Pure capital gains.
You could also check online https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/check...ension/account
Not quite. I get partial state pensions from Canada, the USA, Switzerland and the U.K.. My Canadian Pension Plan and US Social Security are paid to me in USD separately to my credit union in the USA. The amount of Canadian pension changes every month with the exchange rate. My AVS is paid to my account with PostFinance. My U.K. State Pension is paid to a U.K. account that I maintain for that purpose. (The U.K. also pays in USD on request and perhaps in other currencies.)
A few months I ago I received over £18,000 from DWP. A letter followed, to my address in Switzerland. It said that because my late spouse and I had retired before 2016 (I think it is) and she had nearly a full pension whereas I had only 10 years' worth of N.I. stamps, I was entitled to her rate of pension retroactive to her death four years before.
See: https://www.gov.uk/death-spouse-bene...nsion/pensions
And re Social Security Abroad https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ty-abroad-ni38
The USA is the only country outside the EU/EEA/Switzerland to have a *strong* totalisation agreement with the U.K, that entitles one to full COLA and other benefits. The reason for that is negotiation by Joseph Califano and staff and successors in the 1970s-80s and effective 1 Jan. 1985. There are about 25 American agreements with various countries and in the absence of total reciprocity the USG will pay no pension at all to that country's retirees. (If only Canada, Australia, N.Z. and South Africa, among other popular countries for British retirees, would hold to such a strong line: National Insurance is paid without COLA to them until and unless the retiree is physically present in the U.K. or presumably EU/EEA/Switzerland -- assuming those treaties are denounced as part of Brexit.)
The U.K. is said to have one of the lowest state pensions in Europe (presumably meaning in relation to cost of living) at around £9,000 p.a. It is not means tested. Additional benefits are available to those in poverty. U.S. Social Security is skewed to benefit the low paid and those who also receive a foreign pension (or one of those U.S. Government or U.S. State pensions that do not pay FICA contributions) get a reduced amount based on the Windfall Elimination Provision. Canada pays an additional Old Age Security assistance which is means tested and requires present or past qualifying residence in Canada.
My AVS increased slightly when my wife died. In 1954 my Zurich-based grandfather divorced my grandmother, who had been living in New York City since 1917, solely because divorce increased his Swiss pension and other benefits.
Totalisation means that if you do not qualify for a pension based on years of contributions to a participating country then those years may be added to years you contributed to another treaty country so your contributions are not lost. If you are entitled to a pension in both (or all) relevant countries then the treaty is not applicable. You cannot totalise a year to a country in which you made contributions and qualified that same year. The other point of a totalisation agreement is that you are exempt from paying into two participating countries at the same time. I understand that Switzerland will not any longer allow residents of EU/EEA countries who are not employed in Switzerland to participate voluntarily in AVS. That did not apply to me as the rule was not retroactive. The U.K. does not seem to take that point of view and allows Class 2 or 3 (or if applicable Class 1 & 4) contributions to be paid, regardless.
As I read the DWP/HMRC Web site, it seems to me that when one volunteers after moving abroad you may risk having to pay N.I. stamps for the first year only based on your actual wages, which could be costly. It's something I need to inquire about as one of my daughters had 25 years of N.I. credits when she took employment in the U.S.A. Class 3 is easier to qualify for and costs about £800 a year. A bargain if you have a long life expectancy. Class 2 is cheaper but not so easy to qualify for.
In the U.S. and U.K. you can delay taking your state pension/social security at least up to age 70 and in the USA that increases your pension by 8% for each year you delay it.
Most of the rules I mention above have special qualifications and exceptions too complex to put in a forum posting. But you get the general idea from what I wrote. I was a pensions analyst. SIPPs and Roth IRAs are particular curiosities that work well as between the U.S. and U.K. (due to Art. 17/18 of the Tax Treaty) but may have unanticipated effects in other countries.
I have not discussed SERPs or its successor but only basic State Pension. In all the countries I mentioned higher contributions should yield a higher net pension.
All the tax treaties I have looked at provide that state pensions will be taxed only in the country of residence (and that is an exception to the U.S. treaty Savings Clause of worldwide taxation of citizens. (Civil Service and Military pensions are taxed by the paying country unless the recipient is a citizen of the other country as well in which case double taxation is possible, maybe with a foreign tax credit: that point is not entirely clear.)
Interesting discussion here of bereavement benefits for persons who subsequently cohabit: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...-together.html
Currently tested also on savings e.g. if you have less than £23,250.
Quote:
What happens during a financial assessment
A Financial Assessment Officer from the council will visit you at home to ask about things like your:
earnings
pensions
benefits (including Attendance Allowance or PIP)
savings
property (including overseas property)
They won't need to know about the value of your possessions or any life insurance policies.
It won't work to spend your money or give your property away before the financial assessment. The assessment can ask you about things you used to own.
If the council thinks you have reduced your wealth on purpose, it might stop you getting any type of financial help.