Can I refuse AHV while still resident in Switzerland?

Hopefully I'll be gone before I reach 65, but just in case:

If I have done them correctly, my calculations show that I will be worse off if I accept an AHV pension.

As I have not worked in Switzerland it would only be a tiny amount based off my OH's contributions. If I accept an AHV pension not only will my husband's AHV be reduced, but also my US Soc Sec will be reduced as well. All in all, we as a couple come out worse if I take an AHV pension.

Since I expect to leave Switzerland before qualifying age, my plan had been to simply not fill out whatever form would be needed. No one would notice, or care.

But what happens if I am still here at 65? Do I need to do anything official in order to refuse the AHV pension?

Many thanks.

I couldn't find anything about not actually wanting the money you are due. I guess that such a request may send the authorities into meltdown!

However, by delaying the time at which you take it, you increase the payments.

https://www.123-pensionierung.ch/de/...re%20AHV-Rente .

This being said, you do need to fill out forms in order to get the AHV payments, so the recipient does need to be active. If you don't fill out the forms, you don't get the money. So, that may well be the easiest approach. And if you are no longer here when you qualify, I doubt the Social Security Office will run after you.

Maybe this will help. I’m over 65, and I’ve never registered with ahv for anything. My husband is younger, still has 6 years or so to work, but I get nothing from ahv. I have an ahv number and did get an iv benefit in 2011 (they paid for my chemo wig).

So probably if you do nothing , you’ll be ok.

I should mention I’ve not worked for a Swiss employer since I lived here.

Enquire with the AHV office what happens if...

It's their job to answer these questions.

You can get an estimate of your future AHV pension from the AHV office but if you never worked then I doubt it would be high enough to impact your husband's Swiss pension.

I thought US social security payments are only reduced if a foreign pension is paid because of foreign employment. It depends, I suppose, on how they relate your pension entitlement to your husband's employment.

Why don't you get anything from the AHV? Do you prefer not to receive your pension perhaps because, like meloncollie, it might influence your finances negatively?

Meloncollie, I hope you're following this related thread: https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-...titlement.html

Interesting post there, today, by ch2013, which might possibly influence your calculations: https://www.englishforum.ch/3412682-post17.html

Married couple are treated as one unit and can never get more than 1.5 times equivalent of their entitlement so payments to wife may well reduce husband's social security.

Yes indeed.

As OH is limited to 20-some/44 of the max pension, AHV certainly isn't going to be much in any case. But add in reductions for a spouse's pension, then reductions on the US side... it looks like we as a couple will actually be a few Rappen ahead by not claiming my pension.

The only case where my claiming an AHV pension would make sense is if US Soc Sec goes bankrupt or the GQP manages to abolish it. Sure, there's a non-zero chance of that happening, but ever burgeoning dumpster fire aside, as of yet not enough for me to lose sleep over.

Yes, simply put.

You can postpone your collection of the AHV (old age pension) by up to 60 months if that helps your financial planning. You even get a higher rate when you do eventually claim.

Maybe this helps (German: )

https://www.123-pensionierung.ch/de/.../ahv-aufschub/

EDIT

Hopefully, you mean only that you will have left Switzerland by that time.

I believe that if you do not request the payout of your AHV by the due date (64 for women at the moment) you have 1 year to explicitly request a postponement of your AHV payments otherwise you get it anyway. lose (a) any pension that would have accrued in the meantime and (b) you cannot then apply for any deferment of any of the pension, however you can start to collect what remains.

EDIT

Added a corrected interpretation of the 1 year rule. Yes, you can simply abandon an AHV pension.

SVA Zurich notes on the linked document (translated):

"What do I have to do to receive my AHV retirement pension?

First of all, you must register. The AHV old-age pension is not paid out automatically. With the AHV, the principle applies: No benefit without registration. Anyone who wishes to claim an old-age pension from the AHV must register. The is necessary because the compensation funds do not have all the required information. Anyone who wants to draw his pension early or defer it must register in good time (see point 6)."

https://svazurich.ch/dam/sva-dokumen...ltersrente.pdf

Just a question - in case you do not register to have the payment, then is there any impact should your DH pass away? Just thought it would be important to consider this angle also.

...but if the OPs partner has only 20 years of Swiss contributions they will be below this 1.5 limit - I can't see they would reach this limit.

However, I think the OP's belief that she would only get a minimal pension here may be mistaken. Although pension contributions are personal, a non-working spouse is effectively funded by the working spouse. Assuming OPs partner is a decently high earner and working in CH this may well not involve any additional contributions but the benefit will still accrue. There could easily be 20-odd years worth of AHV coming to the OP as well. Check out the official records with the AHV office!

Can't speak for the US side but from the Swiss side you can never be worse off from claiming a pension.

My understanding is that it's not 1.5 limit of the max but of the 2 individual situations.

You make a good point about the amounts. OP have you requested the calculation from your AHV office? This may yeald some light on amounts etc (and it's way more accurate than the online calculator.

It is 1.5 times the max. https://www.123-pensionierung.ch/de/ahv/hoehe-ahv/

The maximum pension you can receive as an individual is CHF 28,680. The maximum for a married couple is CHF 43,020 - this is an absolute limit and does not move with the mix. Interestingly, foreign pensions don't count towards this limit.

So if the OP's OH has 20 years of Swiss pension he would receive about 14,000 pa (haven't checked the actual amount!). If the OP is due another CHF 14,0000 she would receive this in full as the total is below the maxumim.

I do not believe this is how it's done as it would favour people who have not contributed fully. I believe they would calculate the prorate of the Ehepaare maximum to calculate the max of the specific couple.

But it's only my interpretation and I may be wrong.

I think you're right.

As I understand it, the calculation is done based on the contributions of Spouse1 plus the contributions of Spouse2. These are regarded both by their amount and duration (number of years and months contributed).

In OP's case, if she has not been working, then only Spouse1's contributions are relevant. But Spouse2 is not not-insured and is definitely covered, too, because Spouse1 has been contributing.

Were Spouse1 single, he would receive, just as you say, 100% of his own personal amount , which has been scaled up or down according to his level of contribution and scaled down according to the [lack of] years of contribution.

Since Spouse1 is married, then the couple, together, will receive 150% of his personal amount. Because the system uses so-called splitting , half of that 150% is paid out to each spouse, separately. If one of the spouses dies, then the pension for the remaining spouse (assuming the remaining spouse has already reached old-age) will then received an increased pension: no longer 1/2 of 150%, but as a widow or widower, 1/1 of 100%.

Things are a little more complicated for any interim phase during which one spouse has reached retirement age but the other not yet.

Yes, it is well worth asking the AHV office to do an individual calculation. This is merely provisional, but the closer one gets to normal retirement age, the more accurate the figures become.

Yeah... so the advise is don't get married, just live under the same roof

If the escal calculator is correct, this whole thread may be moot:

When I put in that I (the non-working spouse) am resident in the US, it says that I do not qualify for a pension.

(FYI, If I put in that I am resident in Switzerland with the same other variables for OH and I, then I qualify.)

The working spouse qualifies whether resident in Switzerland or in the US - but the amount is lower if the working spouse is resident abroad.

How accurate is the escal calculator?

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That aside, any Americans who have left Switzerland and are receiving AHV who who can comment?

Also, how are AHV payments taxed by Switzerland when one is no longer resident in Switzerland?