If you want one, keep it in a car park and use it at week-ends to go in the mountains but unless you really live in the sticks, public transports will get you there and at abou 80 chf it's a bargain. In summer you can even commute from one end of the harbour to the other in a boat (you can too in winter but...) which is great.
I can think of a few less nightmarish things than a SUV in Geneva city centre, with the constant works on the roads (mainly to build new tram lines it seems) and the lack of parking space.
A quick lesson in reading for all those who keep writing stuff about how its unnecessary to have a car.
Des wrote should he buy a car or import one , at no stage did he ask either your permission to drive in Geneva or whether it was a good idea. He may be disabled, he may have a wife and 3 children to move around, he may enjoy getting out to mountains with his mountain bike or climbing and needs his SUV to do so, at no stage did he ask whether its a good idea to drive in Geneva. But half a dozen replies to his thread are from car nazi's.
I mean can't you people get your head around the fact that just because you don't need a car doesn't mean that everyone else on the road is a gas burning tree knocking down anti environmentalist, honestly, some people do need cars for good reasons...
Personally I like to use mine to drive from my abatoir where we make foie gras to the under-age sweat shops I own in chinatown..
Oh yeah, and US Merc ML's ARE CHEAPER in the US because, IIRC, they use Chrysler not Merc engines and some other stuff, hence they are a bit crap.
Reading through this thread is confusing.
My wife has just secured a good position with a well known company in Geneva and we started the painful process of trying to discover what we can do and how to do it.
We are moving from the UK so I can live in either France or Switzerland and it made sense to us to find a property just over the border in France (cost of property etc etc).
It became highly confusing when the HR and Relocation people told her that it is impossible to live in France and work in Geneva as she is Romanian by birth. Switzerland do not currently recognise Bulgaria or Romania as EU members and place restrictions on the previous new member countries under the Bilateral Agreement. We were incredulous at the crazy location of borders and red tape around all of this.
Luckily, she became a British Citizen last Friday and has applied for her UK passport and she now enjoys the rights of a full EU Member Country and we can now live over the border legitimately.
We were told a tip by a colleague who is officially Swiss but not native regarding the cross border movement (it's bending the rules):-
1. Do the Swiss officialdom process and try to find a friend who will let you use their address.
2. Move to France.
3. If you are ever stopped at the border, say you were visiting a friend or family at your second home.
He and his wife have recently bought a house in France and live there.
I visited the area whilst my wife was training and I only saw one pair of border police in 8 days returning to Geneva through Annemasse and was waved through, however the car was a Swiss hire car. I must have crossed the border dozens of times if not more.
Other colleagues have told us they haven't been stopped in 1.5 years or more, we have also been told that there are spot checks every now and again.
With regard to the car, I saw allsorts of cars while we were staying in the centre of Geneva ranging from little runabouts to huge 4WD and flashy sports cars. My main problem was that I was only there for 8 days and there were only blue zones around the appartment the company provided for us. I received two fines for parking longer than 90 minutes in a blue zone and in an unmarked area. I resorted to moving the car around. This proved somewhat difficult as there were a lot of Macaron cars there for long durations and as soon as I saw a space it was filled when I got there!
Get a space or a macaron or a house/appartment with a garage, drive or space.
And they say moving home is stressful! I have only just started with our challenges to move over, my head aches!
Just add one more thing, I wouldn't be without my car there as I love the mountains and countryside and my wife loves shopping! I also value the freedom of travelling when I want with privacy.
Just so you know, your HR dept don't know what they are talking about. Given that you are a UK citizen she as the spouse of an EU17 national qualifies for the same rights as an EU17 national and can therefore without precondition buy or rent in a bordering state and has full access to any part of Switzerland through her G EU/ETFA permit.
If on the other hand you were not an UK citizen then she would need to have permanent residence in the bordering country and to have lived in it for a period of 6 months. The permit would then only be valid for the canton in question and no job changes etc as for other non EU17 permits...
Thanks but it is her who has the job, I don't have one there yet and will be moving with her so everything applies to her and her Swiss permit.
Now she is "officially" an EU Citizen it has all gone away.
So true, when I was living in Germanay around 2002, you hardly ever saw an SUV type vehicle. Yesterday, on the way to Ticino we passed SUV after SUV many with either Swiss or German plates.
It's like the mindset of gas is expensive but I'm so rich it doesn't mattter.
So what! The fact that YOU are an EU citizen is sufficient for her to receive the EU permit. Who is doing the working is an irrelevance and it is furthermore an irrelevance to the French authorities as long as you are married...
From what I have been told by Federation Suisse it doesn't work like that Richard, I have looked extensively into this, her company started applying for a B work permit on a Romanian passport. She has to have lived in a permanent residence in France for 6 months in the G scenario.
In the UK she did not receive automatic Citizenship when we got married, just a residence visa for 2 years, then permanent right of residence and now she has British Citizenship.
Now she has every right that I have.
If you know different, then we'll be pleased to hear from you.
I know different...
As part of the application process it is necessary to inform the Swiss authorities of an applicants marital status and to provide spousal information. Once they are aware that the applicant is married to an EU17 national then the "superior" passport is the passport of application. Hence the application should be made as an EU national and not otherwise.
I am sure they are important but whoever federation suisse are they are not the deciding factor. If they are an agency then they are probably taking the easy route. You can enquire at a local Migrationsamt who ARE the official body for permits. Sorry but I don't know the French version of this would guess Aliensbureau? Shorrick!
Actually they would be allowed in if they have their own registered company (self employed). Even France is not permitted to bar self employed EU17 nationals on that basis. Sweden is trying to get that rule changed because of running battles with cheap Estonian construction companies snapping up contracts but countries such as Britain and Ireland are more supportive of free movement so oppose them. I guess your friends are employed, however, so it probably won't help them.
Learn to trust certain posters - Richard - for example, to quote Ice T, "knows his sh!t"
Cost of living, etc though there are a few other things to be taken into account, two sets of insurance perhaps (one for her in CH and one for her in FR)
This sentence is riddled with inaccuracies. They certainly recognise Bulgaria and Romania as EU members. What you mean is that they aren't extending the schengen type arrangement to their citizens. Other posters have advised what you need to do. Obviously slapping her HR dept is a starting point.
you always could etc etc
Probably the smartest way to do it, though you can always rent a room somewhere too. Obviously it wouldn't pay to mention it ever again or else some Swiss colleague will inform on you, its a rule thing...
FYI nothing like that happens at Basel or Feldkirch or any other 'german' border I've crossed.
Dear Sir,
Romanian citizens do not enjoy yet the rights given by the agreement on the free movement of people between Switzerland and the EU. With regard to the States which acceded in 2007 (Bulgaria and Romania) to the EU a further protocol to the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons will be negotiated. Negotiations with Switzerland will start in Summer 2007. The duration of the negotiations and of the approval process on both sides (possibility of holding a referendum in Switzerland) is not known. As with the arrangements for the 10 accession countries of 2004, the transitional period for labour market restrictions (such as national priority, prior approval of working and wage conditions as well as quotas) and the level of the quotas will most likely be the main topics of the negotiations.
The legal basis for Romanian citizens to live and work in Switzerland is described at the following webaddress :
http://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home/themen/arbeit/nicht-eu_efta-angehoerige .
html Romanian citizens need a work permit before taking up a job in Switzerland. The employer is responsible for the procedure.
According to common aliens law, cross-border commuters status for Romanian citizens requires, among others, a permanent residence in the external border zones of Switzerland (around 20 km in the French territory for the canton of Geneva).
The cross-border commuters status defined in the agreement on the free movement of people applies only to nationals of the EU countries that are part of the agreement. Family members of another nationality are subject to common aliens law regarding this specific status.
We hope to have answered your question.
Kind regards
Federal Office for Migration
Hey Mr Happy
I am here because I needed to find out what is what from people who know.
Read my posts containing e-mails from the Federal Office for Migration in reply to my questions.
How do you argue with officials and tell them that other people know better?
Dear Sir,
I advise you to contact the Geneva authorities. Cantonal authorities regulate the procedure for cross border permit. They will be able to answer your question about Thonon-les-bains.
Office cantonal de la population
Route de Chancy 88
1213 Onex
Case postale 2652 - 1211 Genève 2
N° de téléphone : +41 22 546 48 88
Horaires d'ouverture : 9h00 - 15h30
Office cantonal de l'inspection et des relations du travail
Main-d'œuvre étrangère
Rue des Noirettes 35
Case postale 1255
1211 Genève 26 - La Praille
Tel.: 022/388 74 00
Conditions for foreigners who do not enjoy the benefits of the agreement on the free movement of people:
In order to get a G border commuter permit for your Romanian wife, her employer has to apply for this permit . He has to prove he cannot find anyone living in Switzerland for the job (principle of national preference) and control of wages and work conditions will be made by the cantonal authorities. A G permit shall only be granted if the applicant has had his ordinary domicile in a border zone for at least six months and if he presents a certificate of domicile to this effect. Borders commuters may only work within the border zone and must return to their domicile once a week. The cantons may issue additional limiting provisions on the employment of border commuters.
Kind regards
Federal Office for Migration
Hello most interesting. I would very much like to know where in Swiss Law 0.142.112.681 it states that the family of an EU citizen is to be discriminated against according to their nationality. If I am not mistaken this is in direct contradiction of said law article 7 letters d & E which state:
d) Domicile right irrespective of nationality
e) Right of family members to perform their occupation irrespective of nationality.
This article is subject to Appendix 1 of said Swiss law which further in Art. 3
§2 a. defines a spouse as being a family member irrespective of nationality
and in Art. 4 states that any permit given to a family member has the same validity as if given to the EU member.
Further in Art. 7 of said Appendix 1
§1 defines the situation of a cross border worker and §2 states simply such cross border workers do not require a permit, and further states that the relevant government body *can* provide a special certificate valid for at least 5 years. §3 of said article says this shall be valid for the whole of the state.
Given the above and given that I am quoting from Swiss Law which you can check yourself at http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/0_142_112_681/ I would say that according to law: There should be no discrimination between an EU citizen and a member of their family irrespective of nationality. That permits given to a family member shall be equally as valid as if given to an EU citizen. That an EU citizen has the right to stay whereever they like within the borders of any state defined within the Agreement between the EU and Switzerland. That an EU citizen has the right to work in any state within the above defined borders while maintaining their domicile in another state. Seeing as you could get a permit to live in France and work in Switzerland the nationality of your wife is immaterial.
As I said if this is not the case show me where in the agreement between the EU and Switzerland it so states.
Richard
Fantastic Richard
Thank you so much for this, i have just sent it to my wife so that she can send it to her HR people.
I guess that this is what I have been hearing about officialdom in Switzerland and France being ridiculously tied up in REd Tape and people who don't know the actual laws.
Hope to be there soon.
Please note that I am not saying it is going to help, just that according to the law that both countries agreed to implement, the nationality of your wife should be irrelevant...
Yes I have just read this again:-
States for which the transitory provisions of the 2002 Bilateral Agreement on the free movement of persons are in full force :
EU - European Union
Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom (States whose membership predates the 1 st of May 2004).
EFTA - European Free Trade Area :
Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway.
Cyprus and Malta , which joined the EU on the 1st of May 2004 and which, since April 1, 2006, benefit from the same conditions offered to the 15 EU member States and EFTA members which ratified the Agreement of 2002. States for which the Bilateral Agreement on the free movement of persons is subjected to the transitory provisions of the 2004 extension :
8 new member states of the European Union :
Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovenia, Slovak Republic.
Since April 1, 2006 , these 8 states which joined the EU on 1 May 2004, can partially partake in the extension to the Bilateral Agreement on the free movement of persons as in principle until 2011, the Swiss labour market will hold priority over citizens from those countries. States for which the Bilateral Agreement on the free movement of persons does not apply :
THIRD COUNTRIES :
All other countries of the international community including Romania and Bulgaria.
Although Romania and Bulgaria became full members of the European Union on the 1st of January 2007 these countries are not automatically included in the Agreement on the free movement of persons. Indeed, Switzerland must still negotiate with the European Union the transitory regulations on the gradual extension of the Agreement to these two countries. Until these regulations come into force, applications concerning Romanian and Bulgarian citizens will be handled according to the procedures applicable to third countries. From http://www.geneve.ch/permis/uk/p_menu_uk.asp
Do the authorities know that your Romanian wife is married to a UK citizen? Personally, I think you should have established your residency (based on your passport) first, then filed for the work permit. But anyway, this is now irrelevant as your wife now has her UK passport. Her application should be revised.