The MV is the Mieterverband, a tenant's association that will give you assistance with difficult landlords. It's worth joining. Here is the link to the website of the Zurich branch:
For cleaning, I suggest that you call various companies and get them along to give you quotes. The prices can vary considerably. Make sure that the offer the "Ubergabegarantie" which means that they send someone along when you give your apartment back and if something has not been cleaned satisfactorily they will correct it (free of charge).
As for the painting, that will depend on how much (if any) damage you have done. Normal wear and tear is to be expected. Shadows on the walls where you may have had furniture also. However, if you have made holes in the walls to hang pictures and not filled the holes properly, that would be counted against you. If you decided to use the wall as your latest canvas also!
Joining the Mieterverband means that you can get someone along (for a fee, about 120 CHF if I am not mistaken) when you are giving your apartment back. They know the rules and make sure that you are not held responsible for things that you shouldn't be. Some of these people will also help people who are not MV members but will charge more.
Well it depends what deal you have with the painter and how big the holes are. If they are just small tackholes and he is painting over them then I guess you won't be able to see them anyway once he is done.
snoopy. thanks for the MV link. i was looking for this as i heard about it in germany and was trying to find something similar in switzerland. having heard all the nightmare stories, i'd quite like to pay a little bit to avoid being charged 2500 Fr on cleaning!
Don't get me wrong, that won't save you having to get the apartment cleaned, which you SHOULD do. After all, I assume that the apartment was clean when you took it over. If it wasn't you should have yelled and screamed (nice to know in hindsight...). But it will save you getting zinged for something you shouldn't.
February, knowledge comes from experience. I have been there, seen it, done it and have the teeshirt! It's always nice to learn from other people's mistakes, more often than not also cheaper....
Absolutely and that's why it's important to make sure that the cleaning company guarantees that it will be accepted. If their rep is there when you give it back, they will deal with anything that is still outstanding. If your MV rep is there, they will make sure that the LL stays within the bounds of what is acceptable. One other tip is to try and replace anything that is broken before the handover if it is small stuff and within the insurance excess. You will have time to shop around and get the best deals (toothbrush glasses for example), rather than relying on a LL who has no incentive to look for a deal.
Just remember, the whole system seems to be designed so that the tenant moving out gets screwed for everything and that the landlord never pays anything for 'wear and tear' on his properties. So, new wooden flooring in every apartment every 2 or 3 years is fine, the outgoing tenant gets to pay for it.
Well, I don't think that you really need them when you move in. But I would be extremely picky about filling out the checklist when you move in. Make sure that every nick, scratch and mark is noted. If there are several in one place make sure it is noted as several. If the place is dirty, make sure that is noted also. If things don't work or are broken (appliances for example, door handles, etc) make sure they are noted and what the deal is with repairs. Have the appliances been checked? The dishwasher and washing machine (if you have your own) should have been checked by the last tenants.
Also, be aware, that within 10 days of having taken over your apartment you can register further items, so you don't have to feel too under pressure when you get your keys. Once you have your keys, take the time to go through the place again before the furniture is in and make sure that you have picked up on everything. If not, put a list together of things you want added to the list and send it by registered mail, within ten days, to your landlord/agent.
Hi, I was wondering if anyone here can tell me of any personal experiences with the Mieterverband. Have they helped you to resolve disputes with landlords before?
The Verwaltung is trying to claim that I did not sufficient clean my apartment. I took pictures before leaving and do not want to pay for additional cleaning.
Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts/stories.
If you didn't take someone with you from the Mieterverband or any other expert when you attended the end of lease inspection, I think you are going to have a difficult time since it is after the fact, but of course you can try. It will be your word against the landlords and pictures aren't sufficient. They can show damages but that's about it.
Rather than cleaning the apartment yourself, had you used a professional company that gives a guarantee you would not be in this situation. It is very difficult to clean an apartment on your own to the same standard of a professional cleaning firm and satisfy most rental agencies. I have seen places cleaned both ways and there is truly a night and day difference. The cleaning company misses nothing and if they have, and the landlord finds it, they have to put it right.
The problem is that the landlord is not going to shop around for a cleaning company and get the best possible deal. That's what a tenant would do. Instead the landlord will use whoever is available or a company he knows, particularly if he is under time presssure. Price will not be an issue for him. Maybe you can dispute the cleaning fee he is going to charge you for if you can prove that another firm could do the same work for less. But assuming you have given back the keys, and there is a new tenant, you will only be able to get a price based on the sq m rather than someone actually seeing the place.
I know of several situations where the landlord was happy with the cleaning when the tenant moved out, but the new tenant was not. Is this what happened in your case?
I am sure you must be aggravated having worked hard to clean. I do feel for you.
We are moving next week and didn't even bother to try and clean ourselves. The moving company (local Swiss) also does the move out cleans with a guarantee and is giving us a discount since they are doing the moving. One more thing off our list.
But coming from the states I have to say what a difference in requirements there are between there and here. There you just have to have it clean -- not super duper uber clean. Then the landlord has to go in - repaint and reclean again for the next tenant.
Yes, I cleaned the apartment myself. It took two full days too. I don't know whether it was the incoming tenant who found the apartment insufficiently clean or the Verwaltung. (The incoming tenant was very hard-nosed and nit picking.)
During the handover the Verwaltung asked me to re-clean the windows in the bedroom, the stove and the toilet. I stayed another two hours after she left to make sure everything was spotless. If I had had the money to get professional cleaners, I would have.
I have contacted the Mietverband and they advised me to object to supplemental charges for cleaning.
When we left our last place it took us 2 weeks to clean the place, we also re-painted everything and left the place in a better condition then when we moved in, so the owner couldn't possibly have anything to moan about. At the handover the owner signed the place off etc, They still tried it on though, trying to get us to pay to have the garden re-modled!!! the agents soon put them straight and we got our deposit back, but only after a couple of stressful months hastling the agents and the owner everyday.
Well, I don't want to give up so easily either, because the Verwaltung will just try exploiting every subsequent foreigner. I also have cleaned the apartment and left it in a better condition from when I moved in. Some of my former neighbors from the same building told me that when they moved out they did not have any problems even though they did not clean very well.
I think the Verwaltung just dislikes me because I had complained about the heating 2 years ago. 2 years ago the heating in the building was very bad. After taking too many cold showers in the winter, I wrote a letter to complain about it. I think perhaps she still holds a grudge over this. Of course, I may be wrong.
We just moved out from a 4.5 zimmer flat and cleaned it by ourselves. Fortunately, we did not get any bill. We spent two weekends to clean the 90 sq. meters flat.
I think it is because only the agent showed up during the final inspection. I do not know who is the owner. Maybe the private owners are more picky.