that’s what i wrote, so as long as your full faith is in place all is peachy, just with a slight to moderate inflation every year for you not to relax too much 
and about quantum computer again some hype to pump and dump, when the existing cryptography will be in danger, surprise surprise new cryptographic algorithms will be put in place, otherwise might as well all come back to caves, because everything depends on them.
There is a big difference between central bank money and cryptos. When central banks print money they buy something with it, usually state bonds but in Switzerland other things like equity, currencies and gold too. This belongs to whoever holds the money. And of course it may gain or lose value, that is what the Nationalbank shows every quarter and most of the times gifts part of it to the Kantons. Swiss Nationalbank is stockholder of almost every non-finance company in the world!
Now, cryptos like bitcoin give away that money, in case of bitcoin to the so called miners. And those probably invest it into energy for “mining”. So yes, it is gone, you don’t hold anything, nothing belongs to you because this energy is already spent (at an incredible amount) and whatever is left is in the pocket of the miners.
Today it is clear that bitcoin is not good in hiding transactions, never was. So the only thing it is good for is trading with the “find a more stupid” philosophy. If you don’t find a more stupid buyer… it was you.
When the economy backing a currency runs into trouble then the Government takes action.
Who is responsible to invest in creating new algorithms, distributing and implementing them
If competing algorithms are developed then what is the way forward.
I fear you are correct.
Why fear?
If Bitcoin crashes then there will be huge financial losses and likely the consequences will filter down even to us who never touched it with a barge pole.
since i couldn’t even understand your point about bitcoin, here is what chatgpt answers 
Misleading or oversimplified
- “Money goes to miners.” (Only mining rewards and fees go to miners; purchases mostly pay sellers.)
- “Nothing belongs to bitcoin holders.” (Bitcoin holders own their bitcoins; the author’s point is that bitcoins are not claims on underlying assets.)
- “Energy is wasted therefore bitcoin has no value.” (That’s an argument, not a demonstrated economic conclusion.)
So the piece is less a neutral explanation and more an opinion arguing that central-bank money creation results in asset accumulation on the central bank’s balance sheet, whereas Bitcoin creation expends real-world resources without creating corresponding backing assets, and therefore Bitcoin’s value depends primarily on continued market demand. Whether that conclusion is persuasive depends on one’s view of what gives an asset value.
Not sure why you changed what I said, but to make it a little bit more clear: when the Nationalbank creates money it invests that money. The result of the investment may be negative but is mostly positive. Part of that money goes to the Kantons and to the State so we pay less tax and have a really nice infrastructure in Switzerland.
Now in case of bitcoin created bitcoins go to miners who cover their energy bill with it and spend the rest on whatever they like.
I did not speak about the function of exchange goods for money, this is the same with FIAT money as with bitcoin. I don’t know why you mentioned that.
The part “nothing belongs to bitcoin holders” needs some explanation. The Swiss Franc has a floor that is the things the Nationalbank holds in its balance sheet. In theory the value cannot go under the net value of those goods. Now this does not exist in bitcoin, there is no floor, no backup value. It is basically worthless. Somebody said before that all FIAT money is basically worthless and that is not the case as I tried to explain.
Energy is wasted, but I never said that is the reason bitcoin has no value. It is just nonsense, that is all. Bitcoin actually consumes 0.4 to 0.6% of worlds energy production and that is really complete nonsense!
Addon: if you don’t understand something ask the forum, not some stupid AI that actually lies to you because it is not trained enough and soon will lie to you because it is trained enough (and needs more energy). Can we not use that bullshit here please?
i pasted your whole comment into gpt, so it just made its own conclusions 
and summarized how it liked so…in any case all blabbered enough of their opinions, the time will show 
sun is shining, so all is well 
I see. I use those things sometimes for yes/no questions and even those are like 30% wrong. If it does not know it does not say so but just blabbers some bullshit. And it is trained from forums like ours, but on most forums bitcoin holders write a lot, so no wonder the answer is like that.
I would really prefer not to read AI answers in a forum and even English is not my first language I’ll try to answer all questions.
The one thing that I had to correct was the intrinsic value of FIAT money like CHF compared to bitcoin, again, bitcoin is zero, CHF is based on the balance sheet of the Nationalbank. So yes, you have to trust the Nationalbank and with some cryptos you have to trust some company, which may be higher risk. And with other cryptos you don’t have to trust nobody because the intrinsic value is exactly zero.
AI is stupid, bitcoin is stupid hahahha alles klar which intrinsic value you keep mentioning is lost for me, nothing has any value unless people decide it has, not your fiat, not your gold, not your central bank with its assets, nothing, all just subjective bullshit we all play in. Plenty of people find local huts on chicken legs for 1million worth taking 40year mortgage 
, talk about stupid , i wouldn’t even live there for free…Honestly don’t even get what you trying to prove that bitcoin has no value, it does to those who use it, the same way as your central bank assets have value for someone.
I tried to explain, the intrinsic value acts like a floor to otherwise worthless currency. There is none for bitcoin and the one for the CHF is shown in the balance sheet of the Swiss Nationalbank.
I am sorry that you are not able to understand that simple concept. AI does not seem to help here. Ignoring the off-topic rest of your post.
Yeah me too sorry you are not able to understand simple concepts of modern digital world. Balance sheets of countries of course is god given value of our existence ahhahahah
Well i guess this sounds plausible
mixing “has no backing” with “has no value.” Those are not the same.
CHF has value because people trust and use it, taxes are paid in it, salaries/prices/debts are written in it, and the Swiss state/SNB supports the system. The SNB balance sheet helps credibility, but you do not own a tiny piece of SNB assets when you hold 100 CHF. You cannot redeem 100 CHF for SNB stocks/gold.
Bitcoin has value differently: people value its scarcity, transferability, decentralization, censorship resistance, and network adoption. It is not backed by assets, but neither are most modern currencies in a direct redeemable sense.
A better distinction is:
CHF: value comes from state power + legal/tax system + monetary policy + trust.
Bitcoin: value comes from network belief + scarcity rules + usefulness to its holders + speculation.
But when saying CHF has a “floor” because of SNB assets, that is much weaker. CHF is not like a share in the SNB portfolio. The SNB balance sheet may support confidence, but it does not create a clean guaranteed minimum value for every franc.
And here are examples when balance sheets of central banks didn’t help, oooops how unfortunate
| Country | Main period | What happened | Outcome |
|---|---|---|---|
| Hungary | 1945–1946 | After WWII, the government financed spending by printing enormous amounts of money. | The worst hyperinflation ever recorded. The pengő became essentially worthless and was replaced by the forint. |
| Germany | 1921–1923 (peak in 1923) | Reparations after WWI, economic crisis, and excessive money printing. | The mark collapsed. People needed wheelbarrows full of banknotes to buy basic goods. |
| Yugoslavia | 1992–1994 | Wars, sanctions, collapsing economy, and heavy money printing. | One of history’s highest inflation rates. The dinar became practically worthless. |
| Zimbabwe | 2007–2009 | Massive money creation to finance government spending amid economic collapse. | Inflation reached billions of percent. The Zimbabwe dollar was abandoned in favor of foreign currencies. |
| Venezuela | 2016–2021 (peak around 2018–2019) | Economic collapse, falling oil revenues, and rapid expansion of the money supply. | The bolívar lost almost all of its purchasing power. Multiple currency redenominations followed, and the US dollar became widely used. |
Thanks for returning the discussion to topic.
Actually it is about bookkeeping. First of all it is not the “state” but the Nationalbank. It has a passive position which is all the money in circulation and it has an active position which is what they did buy and still hold with that money. So much like any other company. Or, if you want, any stablecoin.
Now there are some very important differences to simple companies and the Nationalbank. Simple companies can get illiquid, get liquidated and you get your part of their actives. That is what I would call a floor.
But of course you are right; as the Nationalbank cannot ever get illiquid there will never be a liquidation where you would get part of that goods. But still, I would call it a floor.
Now, with a stablecoin you have the right to those goods when the company that issues it gets liquidated.
With bitcoin there is no such company and the money issued is gone forever, the miners get it. They have no balance sheet, no debt, no nothing. There is no “floor”, no intrinsic value. A similar situation is the so called “helicopter money”, where money is printed and then gifted away to stimulate economy.
Sorry to widen the subject to bookkeeping and some economy/money policies. I try to keep it simple.
And of course everything is valued subjectively by people. I would prefer to trade stones from the river, at least some are beautiful. If you study the history of what was used as money all over the world you will find very funny things with no intrinsic value…
So what?
A few examples of the many bankrupt crypto companies
- Mt Gox. 850,000 BTC Chapter 15. Mt. …
- FTX. $9 Billion USD Chapter 11. …
- Three Arrows Capital. $3.5B Chapter 15. …
- Genesis. $3.4B Chapter 11. …
- BlockFi. $1.3B+ Chapter 11. …
- Core Scientific. $1.4B Chapter 11. …
- Voyager Digital. $1.3B Chapter 11. …
- Celsius. 1.2 billion USD Chapter 11.
Actually almost all money did disappear forever. There are a few left, I think the sterling is one of the oldest.
Since WWI there is only one currency that is/was not coupled with the Dollar and did not lose value against the Dollar: the CHF, it multiplied its value against the Dollar.
Central banks that are not independent from politics and government do not work. You cannot make the wolf protect your sheep. I was in Venezuela suffering (and profiting from) the Bolivar devaluation. Politicians and their friends could exchange Bolivar to Dollar for the official rate, a Caracas Bank was the most valued company in the world because of this official rate. Then they changed back to Bolivar on the black market and started over. Corrupt and stupid, destroying such a beautiful country.
But back to the Bitcoin: it will never have those problems as there is no central control unit. But that means if some crypto code is hacked (by some genius mathematician or simply quantum computing) it is dead in the blink of an eye; there is simply nobody to change all the code, nobody in charge. But as long as this does not happen and as long as enough people believe in it, it will continue. As I said, with a value of between $1 and $1 million. The energy consumption however is a bit annoying, we could have funnier toys with that.
So what??? what it has to do with bitcoin? if banks go bankrupt, doesn’t mean your CHF is useless now, nobody cares in fact, only people who hold they money in those banks. Doesn’t affect my bitcoin in a slightest, still valuable to me
Most crypto coins have gone to zero.
Let’s assume bitcoin and ethereum are in a different class. There’s still uncertainty as to whether they will survive.
A couple of stablecoins have strong corporate/political backing. Maybe they are also in a different class.
It could be that one of these displaces others and I wouldn’t rule out one or more of these also going to zero.
That would be actually amazing if everyone finally sells their bitcoins and price drops significantly, i will buy as many as i can i want to be that nerd that holds as many bitcoins as possible 
You switched the crypto discussion that you started to bitcoin.
So I switch the currency discussion to the Swiss franc and consequently you can delete your post listing coutries whose currencies collapsed as that is no longer relevant.
You don’t understand how sovereign currencies work do you?
I am not surprised.