Do you buy 'Bio'?

Food & Drink, Events and Entertainment
21
Too right mate and bloody well said!!

22
I try to buy Bio whenever I can get it.

I don't really trust the Migros Bio range, but I generally don't shop much in Migros anyway. The Coop range is very good though. I also go to Bio shops sometimes, but these are far more expensive, although the quality of the produce is also better.

Bio meat is definitely more tasty.

The difference in such areas as tomatoes and peppers is tremendous too. In comparison to bio tomatoes, normal ones don't taste at all.

Bio potatoes are also much crispier and refreshing, especially when fresh.

With the other stuff, the difference is smaller but I also buy it because I like to support farmers who follow the Bio methods. It is better for the soil, for nature and for myself.

23
Are you sure you're not just adverse to paying extra for a better product and trying to rationalise that?

Such literature is probably sponsored by people who have a stake in non-bio farming. Why don't you talk to a Bio farmer and ask him to explain what it's about and take a look around his farm and see it for yourself? You'll soon see there's much more to it the label.

24
Some see an apple; others see global socio-economic issues that profoundly affect the World.

There's information all around us, no wonder a lot gets ignored

25
I've gone from buying bio whenever I can to being somewhat cynical about whether there is a real difference in the produce which justifies the often steep price difference between regular produce and bio stuff

What I DO care very much about however is the animal welfare standards used in my food. I'm not a vegetarian and one has to accept that animals have to die in order to provide my food. But there's absolutely no justification for making those animals suffer for their brief time on this earth. So I won't eat battery eggs or tethered pork or any of those sorts of things.

I get the impression that Swiss welfare standards are pretty good, but I only buy either bio or the Co-op Naturafarm range if I'm buying meat

26
Nope, i don't. These are facts. Ask the marketing department. Ask them how much profit (percentage) they make on bio stuff.

If you want quality buy at the market, direct from the producer. Additionally the farmer will get the money not the retailer.

Now you're trying to rationalize.

I really doubt it. It has nothing to do with the farmer, he is only selling for a small profit, the retailer is really making money.

27
Sure, it is an established fact that profit margins on Bio products are higher than on comparable products. But this doesn't mean that the higher price is caused soley by the retailer's labelling and higher profit.

A watch shop takes a higher margin on a Rolex than it does on a cheap mass-produced Chinese watch. But this doesn't make the two products identical or interchangeable. It just illustrates that margins are sometimes higher on up-market products.

In the case of bio products, the higher margin is to some extent offset by such factors as the shorter shelf life (due to lack of preservatives) and hence a higher risk of the product having to be trashed. So it's not just pure profit.

28
I have a sentimental attachment to bio as is was the first word I learned here purely from experience. Roughly translated bio == double the price.

Do enjoy it for some food - just used to calling them 'organic' instead. I also like to buy local and will search the forum later for some farmers markets and whatnot.

29
For me all three of these posts go to heart of the matter when it comes to animal produce. It's not just a question of just bio vs non bio but also free range vs non-free range (whatever those labels mean these days). I know free range and organic is going to be more expensive but as Uncle Max says, there's a reason for that. Taste, nuitrition and human health considerations aside, I guess whether or not you buy into this depends on how much you care, or can afford to care about animal welfare but if push came to shove I'd give priority to that vs other labelling.

30
To be honest I'm not sure that I'd give people that much latitude to choose cruel treatment of animals as a trade-off for cheaper food.

As someone said in a previous post, food SHOULDN'T be cheap. When I see these "bargain" fresh chickens in the supermarket in the UK for GBP2 or 3 each it makes me think how anyone can believe you can treat an animal decently, kill and prepare it and still make a profit for such a tiny amount of money.

Just as nobody believes that pet owners should be able to mistreat or starve their pets if they feel like doing so, I really don't think that cheap, cruel produce should be an option. I sound like an old hippy saying that but I'm really not - I'm a capitalism loving financial sort. I just don't believe that you should give people choices that are so inhumane

One of the things I love about Switzerland is the attention that people pay to where things come from. The assumption that all things Swiss are better than foreign produce, the fact that people are prepared to pay more for "pro montagne" milk and cheese to preserve rural jobs and industries. These are all things that have died in most of the rest of the "developed" world.

31
I'm with you 100% and you put it much more eloquently than I did. I have a lot of sympathy for folks on tight budgets but budget shouldn't excuse cruelty.

32
.... but also a lot of people on tight budgets (well, in the UK at least) will spend most of it on junk food when they could save a lot by buying fresh ingredients to cook themselves - they just don't know how to (or are not interested in it).

I read recently that KFC are opening loads of new outlets (I refuse to call them restaurants!) in the UK as their "meals" are seen as cheap. I keep chickens myself and good chicken meat is not cheap to produce, ASDA were actually proud that they could sell whole chickens for £2 or £3 each. They should be ashamed that they can!

33
The other thing that amazes me for example is that you can't buy veal in the UK in a regular supermarket like Sainsbury's

Apparently people are squeamish about the whole veal thing, and don't want to buy it

I can totally understand people not wanting to buy veal which has been deprived of light and kept in crates

But what do these "lacto vegetarians" think happens to the young buy calves when they're born? They're probably feeling drinking their milk and feeling virtuous about not touching meat, without realising that in the UK most male calves are killed at birth because there's no market for their meat

At least the Swiss (and most other European nations) are a bit more honest about the whole process.

34
Not wanting to start a discussion on low-income families and their shopping options - I think this was done elsewhere - if one can source ethically produced food, one can still manage a wholesome and healthy diet on a budget. I've done it here during unemployment and one learns to adapt.

You eat less, you eat frugally and you learn to economise. Sometimes that expensive free-range chicken seems a luxury - and it is. It does, however, feed four people over two meals, if you know what to do with a carcass. Add a few vegetables and that's still less than CHF3.00 per person per meal.

You read that figure correctly

Ask your parents how often they ate Royally and I'll bet they'll say a roast on Sundays and *maybe* a bottle of wine to go with it. *Maybe*.

Now it'd be unusual to wait for one day of the week for meat and *only* have one bottle of wine. Imagine!

I don't wish to come across as all pious / pompous (I waste far too much on wine and luxuries) but I'm aware of my options. I can't be consequent for the same reasons many don't give a hoot: it takes a lot of effort.

I do believe people would be more keen for Bio (the term used in Switzerland meaning Organic) if non-Bio produce was labelled as such ...and we were all a little less greedy

Here's a link on organic production in Switzerland which may be interesting. It explains what all the fuss is about.

35
I hope you don`t eat your lovely chickens i have photo`s of my kids feeding them so i will know

Ok back on topic i was about to start cooking dinner and guess what i forgot i only cook with Bio mince meat, it is more expensive, but well worth it, as it alot less fatty than normal mince meat

36
Alternatively, from the other perspective, there's a reason why Bio food is more expensive - because some people are prepared to pay more to soothe their consciences. Ie: it's a scam.

Thanks to the miracle of capitalism, the relationship between how much something costs to make and how much it sells for is only tenuously related.

Personally, I have found little difference between "Bio" foods and other foods in terms of taste, texture or anything else. One thing I have noticed, however, is that Bio veges go off even quicker ( ) and that whenever I buy a bag of Bio carrots I usually end up tossing 1/4 of them because they've gone mouldy and flaccid.

37
In the mind of the consumer, "Bio" is associated with "organic". And there are many different farming methods that can be classified as "organic".

It would be interesting to see a pointer to the criteria that allow something to attain the "Bio" label in Co-op, Migros. As you opine, maybe it's just marketecture. Maybe anything can get a "Bio" label if you kick enough back to the shops.

Anyone care to provide a reference?

In one of my local Co-ops today, I deliberately avoided the "Bio" section because everything "Bio" was packaged in plastic. Compared with the farmer's markets I frequented in London, it seemed quite anodine and sterile. Hardly the image of organic I carry in my head.

Here's a non-exhaustive list of things to consider: Food miles Artificial fertiliser input per hectare (vs manure, versus crop rotation, versus co-operative planting, versus low/ no till, etc.) Insecticide input per hectare Pesticide input per hectare Fat content added to meat after slaughter Water content added to meat after slaughter Artificial hormone levels in slaughtered meat Antibiotic levels in slaughtered meat Heavy metal, insecticide and pesticide levels in slaughtered meat or fish

38
Maybe. Depends on what qualifies for the "Bio" moniker. It's not necessarily a scam. Until someone substitutes some facts and evidence for what so far is merely opinion , I can't agree that it's a scam. I suspect it is a scam ;-), but for the moment I reserve judgement.

Those three letter B-i-o just might stand for a lot of regulations. Let's argue about those rather than opinions.

39
Or, indeed, they do what they feel right - not just for themselves but for the greater good - and recognise a 'Bio' label is not a silver bullet which will save the world on it's own merits, but a responsible step in the right direction none the less

...which I'm sure you'll agree has nothing to do with the principle behind buying organic.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum (see above posts)

Of course, as there are many different methods of producing food 'cheaply'. As long as they're all facing the same direction, the creases in method should be easily smoothed out. Virgin anything is hard to come by, but I feel intent and motivation is key.

Sure, read my earlier link, it should explain how certifications are achieved (I have not read the whole site).

In fairness, supermarkets are not the best places to start. There are plenty of farmers markets here too

40
I agree absolutely. And I made the remark in the statement of my complete ignorance as to what can be labelled "Bio".

Which link I noticed after the remarks above . There is a link from there to the Migros Bio stuff, but I am struggling with the German. Once I copped out of reading German, I found that this helps . No sign of Co-op's "Bio" regulations.

I know supermarkets are a bad place to look. I only mentioned it as it seemed relevant to the thread.