I'm a non-EU citizen and a university postdoc. I heard that people like us might have university-tied B permit. I tried to figure out but I'm still confused.
I asked my local commune about whether my B permit is tied to my employer, and if I change the job, should I apply for a new permit or just update some documents. This is the response:
Sounds like good news. On the other hand, I work in a different canton than where I live. When I first came I heard the permit splits into the work permit and the resident permit subject to different cantons in my situation.
So the questions are:
- If I want to ask for further clarification and a written confirmation (I heard people get that in Zurich from MIgrationsamt), what is the official French word referring to the special employer-locked B permit?
- Should I send an email to the canton where I work to ask about the mysterious "work permit", or are they actually combined and the answer I got from my town fully confirms that it is not employer-tied? Is changing job really that easy?
(Man I lost count about how many companies rejected me based on non-EU permit difficulties, and it actually turns out not to be a problem?)
p.s. in case the info is necessary: on the back of my permit, it says "Séjour limité à 48 mois. Une activité indépendante est soumise à autorisation" and I'm only 10 months into this 48-month limit.
I live and have lived in Bern for 10 years, but I've been employed in another canton for a few years now and my permit has always been issued in Bern.
Changing my permit from my previous employment to my current, and all subsequent renewals have always taken place in Bern and through the bernese authorities.
Bear in mind that your commune may not know the actual rules. We’ve seen many cases here over the years where they don’t know what the actual laws/regulations are.
Nearly all non-EU permits are tied and the fact that yours states 48 months indicates that it’s tied. If you wish to change jobs then any new employer is going to have to make their case for why you should be allowed to change from your current job. It can be done, but it’s not easy; you would probably need to have some niche skills that can’t be found easily here.
And no, permits are not split into residence and work. For non-EU nationals they must have a job offer that’s been approved by the Swiss authorities to be granted a permit which is both residence and work. The only other way they can get a residence permit is to be extremely wealthy and not need to work to support themselves financially.
It’s a little complicated. The employer is looking for an employee with certain experiences and education and struggles to find one who is a Swiss resident and/or an EU/EFTA national. Failing this, they ask the Canton they are located in for an exemption to the rule and for a permit for a non EU/EFTA candidate they have found.
The new employee would normally receive a permit to live and work in that Canton.
But should the employee wish to live in another Canton, they can do so if both that Canton and the original Canton agree.
This is exactly what I did when I moved from Geneva to Vaud while working in Geneva and holding a employer tied B permit. Geneva agreed but Vaud issued me with a permit that was annotated “Employment in the Canton of Vaud prohibited”. It all became moot after I received my C permit, the restrictions were removed.
So Vaud permit, but working in Geneva.
I’ve never heard of permits being split between two Cantons. Not saying it couldn’t happen but ...
Incorrect, I wonder why you spread such misinformation when living here so long. Your residence defines where permit is issued, I've experienced exactly the same.
" Art. 36 Place of residence
Persons with a short stay, residence or settlement permit are free to choose their place of residence within the canton that granted the permit ."
Since the permit application is done by the prospective employer it’s the canton that the workplace is based in that grants any permits.
Art. 37 Change of the place of residence to another canton
1 Persons with a short stay permit or a residence permit who would like to relocate their place of residence to another canton must apply for the appropriate permit from the new canton beforehand.
2 Persons with a residence permit are entitled to move to another canton provided they are not unemployed and there are no grounds for revocation in terms of Article 62 paragraph 1.
3 Persons with a settlement permit are entitled to move to another canton, provided there are no grounds for revocation in terms of Article 63."
Then somebody please explain to me why, when I was working in GE and living in VD I was dealing with VD offices and got VD B permit. When I moved to GE, my permit was moved to GE canton. I still have all the permits I was issued, just checked now and indeed I had B, from Vaud, for a contract in GE.
This was cca 10 years ago, maybe they changed this on federal level, but its a residence permit, not a working one, so even from the name it suggests what quite a few write here from their own experience.
St2lemans - is it normal for a mod on this forum to engage in vindictive groaning across any topics? I had higher opinion about this place but maybe my memories are a bit rosy. Certainly other mods here display higher level of moral integrity compared to you and you often drag discussion into ego competitions instead of being actually helpful. But go ahead if it makes you feel better, some people really have simple needs
Was this “Employment in the Canton of Vaud prohibited” printed directly on your permit? I only have a time-constraint printed on my Vaud permit (always issued by Lausanne so it should be) but nothing else. Maybe I need to ask bureau des étrangers in Lausanne to clarify all these employer-tied issues and if there are hidden terms on my permit?
There was also an interesting thing about my recent renewal. My permit B was directly renewed for 2 years instead of 1 year, but this 48-month limit is 3 years ahead. Was a nice thing to have a longer permit but couldn't figure out why they chose 2 years.
I found out that non-EU should in principle only have 1-year B permit according to the official site of Vaud:
I assume "renouveler chaque année" implies that each non-EU B permit expires in 1 year so that it forces us to renew yearly. Does that indicate that something is a little different for me behind the scene? Or did they just screw up the math?
Residence within the canton that granted the permit - which is the one the employer’s workplace is based in since they are the ones who have to apply for the permit for non-EU nationals. As said, that can be changed, but both cantons have to agree the switch to a different canton.
There seems to be some misunderstandings on how the application gets evaluated and permits granted.
The first thing that happens is it gets sent to the work authorities of the canton of work , who, based on the employer's justifications, job description, applicant profile, rules on Swiss and EU priority, etc, decide whether the application should be rejected, or if they recommend that a quota unit be used for this application. The application then goes back to cantonal migration authorities for their review and decision (where they review the whole applicant situation, not just work-related). If the applicant has requested to live in a different canton, the authorities decide if they are willing to accept that, and send it to the migration office of the requested canton of residence for their approval. Both need to agree to that. Then it is sent up to the federal SEM for final review, before being sent back down to the migration office at the canton of residence for them to issue the permit.
So yes, there is just one permit that is both work and residence, and it is issued by the canton of residence, but the initial authorisation to work, without which a permit is not possible, is issued by the canton of work. And that authorisation to work is not fully tied to the residence permit — it is after all possible to apply to change cantons without changing jobs also after getting a permit. Another obvious example is the case of family reunification permits that require authorisation to take up employment. You have a family permit from canton A, you find a job in canton B, obviously you're not expected to live there. Canton B's work authorities decide whether or not you should get an authorisation to work. If yes, canton A issues a new permit with right to work.
OP: is your permit actually for work or studies? A lot of postdocs get issued "studies" permit with authorisation to work, that don't count towards the immigration quotas. If that's the case, changing to a non-university employer does usually require the employer to apply for a new permit for you, because that new permit purely for work will be subject to quotas.
Yes, one of the old paper permits. It remained there through 7 or 8 renewals. After 10 years (in total) I got a C and the restriction was no longer there. Still paper then.
More likely they are trying to reduce their workload. They looked at your file and thought, this guys going to renew next year, let’s just make it two ...
I don’t think I ever got two years but that was 1985-1995.
Thank you for the detailed answer! I actually don't know if it counts towards the immigration quotas. Everything makes a lot of sense. It looks like my priority is to ask my work canton for clarification about whether it counts towards immigration and what the change of work process will be (or no process at all). I will try to ask right now.
Your permit says "permis de sejour" which means residence permit. It will be renewed at your residence canton. You can have a residence permit and not permitted to work (been there, done that).
Nobody screwed up anything. B permits for non-eu are generally reviewed 1 years, but after 1st year they might decide to renew it for 2 years. We always got 2 years extentions after our first B permit (VD). Your problem is the 48 months limit. You need to understand how you can take it out of your permit, talk to your cantonal authorities for that.