In that case I would go for a semi-automatic. I think they are not as cheap, but a friend of mine has a Citroen C3 where you have a shift knob but no clutch. She is very happy with it.
Ooops, right. I did not check the automatic option. I would really recommend stick shifts for small cars. My mother has an automatic Suzuki which is not half as good as the manual one to drive and the Fiesta she had before should have been call "Fiasko" instead.
I don't have a fiat, but I have an alfa romeo - somewhat bigger than a panda, but one of the first cars we rented here was a fiat punto I think and that made me want to look at fiats/alfas. Most forgiving clutch I've ever driven. We ended up with the Alfa, and we've been very happy with the reliability of the car. We also have a semi-automatic, and it's fine. No need to apologize for that one. Conversely, I had VWs in the US... nice cars but crap electical systems.
If you crate your dogs in the car, I would check to make sure your crate will fit. There is no standard crate that fits our car and our dog simultaneously because of the sill in the back of the car. The crates fit in the car, but won't open. THe one crate that does fit is too small for our dog. Not sure if the design features are similar, but I would definitley check.
Thanks for all the ideas and comments, everyone! Lots to think about. And, it looks like I need to do some test-driving.
(Actually, the Subaru Justy was my first choice, as I drove one of those many years ago during a few Chicago and Minnesota winters - uglier than sin, but what a great car! Looking at the Subaru website, though, it seems like they don't make an automatic or semi-automatic here, only manual. I've managed to avoid anything with a clutch all these years, and I really don't want to learn on twisty mountain roads. I've been keeping my eyes peeled for a gently used automatic, though.)
The Suzuki Swift sounds interesting, Skoda too... I bet I could squeeze a fourth mutt in those, as well. There's just something about the Panda, though...
Bigblue, do you know if the newer Smarts have a larger engine? I have a '98 (or is it '99?) which pretty much runs on hamster power - there have been a few times when I have been seriously worried I wouldn't make it up the hill. A larger engine might solve some of my problems - but there is still the fact that a Smart is just a 2 collie car...
So, what's wrong with Italian and/or French cars? (Being serious here - I know absolutely nothing about cars.)
Not sure what the problem is with French cars but IIRC, for Italian cars there was a joke that went
"What does FIAT stand for?"
"Fix It Again Tomorrow."
I rented a Panda last time and I found the car very crude and noisy. It was impossible to accelerate smoothly with the thing.
I found the Japanese and German small cars I rented much smoother and better put together.
A Skoda Fabia is the old floor plan Polo in drag.
Cheaper than a VW Polo but when you sell, will also get less.
I know there is bad publicity at the moment on Toyota but a Toyota Yaris would be a good buy and probably quite cheap with the bad publicity in about a months time and they are all having their accelerator peddles changed anyway.
I don't suppose you know a Suzuki dealership who speak English? There's one in Schaffhausen but it's a warehouse linked to a dodgy looking second hand place, no English
I looked at buying one (autoscout). They are quite cool and old square shape ones go for quite a lot considering their age, 3000chf is cheapest for a late 1980s one with mfk. Plus no automatic, no galvanized chassis, so rust a problem when you use it in winter.
For less than that you can buy a scruffy Audi S6 Quattro Avant, 10 years younger, galvanized chassis, 4x4 and automatic. Masses of space for dogs too. The older Audis are very well built. Audis are just about the cheapest quality used 4x4 you can get in CH. You could keep your Smart for summer, and swap plates over, paying tax & insurance for the bigger car only. I might be interested in your Smart car if you do sell it. Nice little town car for summer!
Being indeed amazed at times how grippy the Swift is even on narrower winter tires, I am starting to wonder whether it is grip itself, or rather insufficient side support of the seats, jamming me into the door (well, on the right turns).
As to staying on the topic, I indeed was in a similar situation half a year ago (with the difference of having not 3 dogs, but a few snowboards in the car), and ended up with a Swift.
The looks did matter, so Panda was quickly out of competition purely on this ground.
In case the dogs are not too big, a car to look at can be a peugeot 107/citroen c1/Toyota Aygo. Drove one for two days, and surprisingly did like it a lot! Agile, well put together, and cheap. But not all that bigger than a smart.
I would not trust the website in that respect, but ask a dealer. My mothers small automatic as not on the German Suzuki website either, but the dealer was very well willing to order one for her
Yes the new smarts have a bigger engine, upto 700 cc (from 600 I think) and they also fixed the engine blow up problem with the newer ones too.
Yes the one in Otelfingen speak perfect english
hee hee my version is: Failure In All Technology
People complain a lot about italian cars, and in the past they have had some reliability issues. We've been lucky with ours, I guess.
In the US I had 4 VW Jettas in 23 years, and each one had an electrical problem. Great cars, but pains in the a$$. I don't see Jettas/Ventos/Whatever here so much though - lots of golf and polo models.
Best car I ever had was an audi tt, but the dog didn't like the back seat and chewed bits. Sigh... the things we do for our pups.....
My GF has a Fiat Punto (2003) and it is a wonderfull car. Comfortable, very, very good automatic (CVT), no reliability issues whatsoever. The last few weeks with all the snow and the cold we had no problems with starting. Also we felt very secure driving on all the snow covered roads.
Maybe fiat has some issues with building 'monday morning' cars but if you don't have one of these they are really very good.
Would they still offer the CVT I would have ordered one. But they switched to this horrible automated gearbox (dualogic). Based on the combination CVT/diesel I ordered a merc B class but except for the obvious difference in cabin quality materials my GF's punto is just as good (though I must say that except for a 1 hour test drive I have no experience with the merc B).
test drove a panda once, didnt like the experience at all, gearbox loose and flappy, not a feeling of being well built.
head over to renault and ask if they have any special offers on clio or twingo..... much better for the price.
Hi,
I have been using Italian cars since 1994 (both Fiat & Alfa Romeo). I would not spend my money to buy any of those today, except from the PANDA! I had the old Panda and for the last 4 years I have been using the new 4x4 1.2lt running on gasoline, back at home in Greece, having covered more that 100K Km in that period. I have not tried it in snowy/icy conditions, but in general I would say I am more than amazed by what this car can do.
In the big city it is just GREAT, it is easy to drive and you can fit it anywhere!!! If you can park it in the city centre of Athens then you can park it anywhere in Europe! I have used it in long trips, almost every second weekend travelling for 350Km and has been great on the road too (of course I could do with something bigger to be honest), but it is possible to have long trips and feel safe within the car. If you ask me, I would say you go for the 4x4, since it would be really helpful for driving in snow, but if you need it only for in town driving I guess that the standard type would be also a great choice!
Spacewise, it is reasonably big. I have moved houses twice with this car, however I do not see how you are going to fit three dogs in there, unless if you do not use the rear sit. The space in the boot is not great, not too deep I would say.
It is very economical in fuel consumption, but I found the size of the reservoir limiting. You had to stop every 350-400Km for fuel, which I found sometimes really annoying.
Of course there were some bad experiences as well: there was a mechanical failure in the engine at around 50K Km which cannot be acceptable for this mileage, however it was covered by the guarantee and there has been no issue with the engine since then (now I am at about 120K Km).
I would definitely recommend it, however I believe you should always have a look around and evaluate other options suggested above (it does not cost you anything!). In general, the Panda is a great value for money approach and it is also a great driving TOOL, rather than a car!
Good luck!
GO PANDA!!!
I've owned a few renaults and fiats in my time, while fiat reputation was mud in the 80's and early 90's they do seem to have sorted themselves out, they used to be badly put together, and very cheap materials, and broke - a lot. But since the Tipo in the 90's they seem to have turned a corner
Renault on the other hand, are still as bad as ever! you would need your head tested to buy a new or nearly new one!! I've owned a Renault Spider and Clio 172 from new, both cost a fortune to run, parts broke and renault refused to replace under warantee (eg speedo twice & cat). Servicing cost are right up there with brands like BMW. French cars have a bad reputation for a reason!
"Für Italiener ausreichende Technik", but it all goes the same way.
The only Fiat I remember to have ever been in was a "Polski Fiat" a highschool classmate bought from some Polish seasonal workers for a box of beers.
24 bhp, air-cooled two cylinder engine... A memorable experience, but I do not really need to own one of those myself... and they surely improved a bit since then
I had one of those when I was a student total POS but you could fill it up for £2 and the petrol would last all week.