Oh when I was single I easily got by on 70000 CHF I'd love to know what the expected standard of living for those struggling on 100000 CHF is
I remember reading a couple of years back the poverty level for a family of 4 is 65000 CHF so you would be well above being poor although yes it would be tight. I personally pay 1270 CHF for a 3 1/2 freshly renovated flat so it's all about looking around.
I would leave out the dynamic though in the above statement.
2 months temporary apartment? that is too low no ?
Given the figures you quote, you would probably be financially better off in the US at the beginning.
But there's more to life than money. I've not been in Switzerland long, and I don't have a family here, but it seems like a fantastic place to bring up children.
Very easy to say on a forum, I know, but I would regard this as a once-only opportunity. In your position, as long as my wife was keen, I would take the Switzerland option and enjoy the new experience.
As a US citizen you'll get most likely a B permit restricted to the employer. You'll need five years before you can "upgrade" to the C permit. With the B permit tied to the employer you pay for the unemployment insurance, but you cannot claim it, because when you loose the job you automatically loose the permit and voila, no unemployment money. I think your wife will likelynot get a work permit, just permit to stay, and she would have to apply on her own. A so called "trailing spouse" problem. Please check this.
Without good German skills chances to find a job are much more limited. So, learning German should be a priority.
I lived in Aargau, 2+2, you may pm me for a break-down of averaged cost of living, but with 100k you're probably not going to save anything.
I don't consider the previous post accurate.
As a Non-EU arriving 2008, we got two years (one by one) on L permit (no permission for dependent spouse to work).
After that, with a B-Permit for a Non-EU, the dependent spouse can more easily get work permission.
Surprisingly, I found an employer that was able to get me a work permission with an L permit, after 12 months of being a 'stay at home mum'.
And after 2 years, my husband and I both have B permits with working permission - but his is still the main permit, and mine is the 'dependent spouse' permit...
Oh, and I believe that if you qualify for unemployment assistance, they will renew your permit during the eligibility period. But it's time limited...you don' get unemployment benefits forever...
What exactly is a load of tosh? I summed up 99% of the posts in short order.
Fine, single part was being a bit over the tosh top but 3 kids, no prior overseas experience, 100K income, it is really not doable here to any enjoyable extent.
apples and organes. he is not swiss, has no family, friends here, doesnt know squat about shopping, doesnt speak the language (assuming here)cant take advantage of local events or will be difficult to do so, he is used to US sizes, prices, etc.
Dont get me wrong, I think its a great place, especially with family but speaking as an American who has lived in many different countries, it will be a chore and not a pleasant experience from my perspective.
Venturello summed it up perfectly. The best answer you have had in my view.
Our family really enjoyed our 3 years in Baden. Switzerland is so small that a 20 dollar train ride can take an adult to Germany and back. Small cars are so fuel efficient that it is even cheaper to drive (and as a bonus shop for food and meat). You can buy a German car for 300 to 1000 dollars. Add 1000 dollars to cover a 3 yearly inspection. We were effectively forced out by the inflexibility of the county by the school system in the end, which cost financially (circa 5000 dollars) and emotionally, so we upped and moved. We moved to a different Kanton (County) where rules are more aligned to our values and ideals and situation.
I can almost certainly guarantee that you will not have any savings at all if you leave after 3 years. But your kids could be speaking 2 languages after 3 years. If the company is bothering to get you a work permit, and bring you over, then in 3 years you might be earning 130k.
If this house purchase thing is your dream, then as you will know, now is the best time in the last 10 years to buy in the US, and missing out could cost you dearly. To buy in Aargau you would need say a 60,000 dollar deposit. Swiss prices have not fallen at all.
If you stayed here for a year (it takes this long to settle in, really it does) or two, would a relative lend you enough for a deposit on a house in the US? Your CV would look cool with international experience. US house prices might be lower then.
One last tip, visit all your friends before you leave. You might not be back for a while.
incorrect info.
ya it appears that it is financially tougher with a family as cost of living (and settling in) is so higher. International experience ? For someone in the IT space, it makes really no difference in terms of CV whether you work in CH or Singapore. That makes a difference if one is in the executive sector.
The part I bolded was a load of tosh.
If one is single and earning 100k in Switzerland they would live a wonderful life. Only the most insane luxuries would be out of reach.
You can get a small town feel in Denver or even Boulder in Colorado. Hiking etc all available minus the cost of living of CH. Car more affordable than CH.
Hi Astron
We moved to Zurich from Northern Virginia outside D.C. in the fall 2009. My company transferred me and provided a cost-of-living adjustment based on the following formula: US = 100, Switzerland = 149. Given that the DC area is not cheap, I was really surprised. Generally speaking, it is more expensive here.
There is the well-known "Big Mac index" compiled by the Economist ( http://www.economist.com/node/172577...ry_id=17257797 ) which gives you a street-level sense of the difference. In Oct. a burger that cost $3.71 in the US is $6.78 here. One more comparison ... We bought a turkey from a farm market vendor in Zurich for Thanksgiving. It was 4.5 kilos and cost 95 Sfr. (A kilo is about 2.2 pounds and the franc and dollar are essentially 1:1.)
In terms of living space, we have what is described here as 4.5 rooms (three bedrooms and a living/dining room -- kitchens and bathrooms are not counted) in an urban location very close to Zurich. It costs Sfr 3,150/month. By contrast, we are renting out our house in suburban DC for $2,850/month. It is a California contemporary with five bedrooms, LR, DR, family room, 2-car garage, full finished basement, outdoor jacuzzi, fenced in yard. You do the math.
A lot really depends on what kind of lifestyle you seek. Our two kids are grown and this was the perfect time for us to pick up and go. We love traveling and experiencing different cultures. Our favorite hobbies are hiking and skiing so Switzerland is the perfect place for us, both because it is a beautiful country for outdoor activities and is centrally located and easy to get to many other places. We don't own a car and have never missed it. We "commute" to the ski slopes by train like a lot of Swiss. There are quirky cultural things to get used to, some of which have been mentioned in other posts.
Some other things to consider: Is your employer providing a cost-of-living adjustment, a housing subsidy, paying moving expenses, a "home country" trip at least once a year or providing tax advice help? I don't know whether trying to raise kids here would be difficult or not. It's definitely safe and children and dogs rule, but some other posters have mentioned the expense of day care.
One other thing, will your wife plan to work? I can only get a year-to-year work permit because it's difficult for US citizens to get longer term ones. That puts my wife at a real disadvantage when she tried to find full-time work since no one is particularly interested in taking a chance on someone who may not be here beyond the next 12 months. Not speaking German is also a disadvantage for her. Apologies for the length of this reply, but given my familiarity with Virginia and Switzerland, I thought this might give you some things to think about. For us, the decision to come was easy and we have loved it. Good luck with whatever you decide.
I worked out the costs to be similar to this. ( food and groceries can be less, but then you need money for clothes and other incidentals. THe only other comment I would make though , is that if your wife is working, you would have more money. If she is not working, you would not be paying that 1500^2000 in childcare.
I guess your decision may be based on weighing up between what is the better career path, with a temporary move to Baden ( and widening your and your families view of the world) or being in DC, with more immediate disposable income. Good luck with your decision.
And how many of us here were Swiss when we arrived, had family and friends here, knew how the shopping operated, spoke fluent german/swiss german/french/italian/romansch, was used to sizes and prices, etc.
It is all a part of the adventure, and EF goes a long, long way towards helping newbies get over some of those hurdles.
International experience does make a difference, even for us non-executive types.
To the OP, my thought is take a risk, you may never get the chance again, but Virginia will always be there and be easy to move to.
This site should help to give you a concrete idea of what your rent could look like: http://www.alle-immobilien.ch
I took a quick look. There are 5, apartments in Baden right now that would probably be big enough for your family:
http://www.alle-immobilien.ch/cgi-bi...&ACTION=Search
*Remember when you are searching that #rooms is not just bedrooms, rather the number of rooms in the house including living room, dining room etc. 5 room should be what you need.
Good luck with your decision.
I agree. I also would estimate that 100k is not an unreasonably low salary for a freshly graduated PhD with no work experience. Especially in a city which is cheaper to live in than Zürich. And don't expect 130k within 3 years, that sounds rather unrealistic. Not impossible but don't bank on it.
Of course with a spouse and kids everything costs more, but you know that already!!
Well it does, and it did happen to me, it's all about supply and demand.
You obviously do not know the Baden area very well. There is no way a family of 4 needs to spend 2,500 per month on rent. I have clients renting for a lot less. This is going to be the biggest share of the montly expenses, make this reasonable and it leaves money for other things.