Freelance on Tourist Visa for 3 months after L visa expires

Visas, Permits, Passports and Naturalization
21
As I said, right at the beginning, that is fine. Go back to the US and work from there, if you need to come over for one meeting a month, that is fine (not sure if you need a business visa or not). What is not fine, is staying in Switzerland, Germany, or France on a tourist visa and going to work in Basel every day.... because then you are living and working in Switzerland, not operating from the States.

22
Okay Island Monkey. This is also good information but it tells me there is a line somewhere that is not so clear to me.

What if one business meeting a month turns into 3 days a week...to 3 weeks a month...to 2 months, etc. all within my 3 month limit as a US citizen. At what point am i not "operating from the States"?

23
Only that is not what you are intending to do is it??? Now I don't know, but I'd assume that even an average officer would be able to join up the dots when you are controlled leaving the Schengen area. Especially since it will flash up on his screen that you had a work permit and are still hanging around. If they pull you over you can be pretty sure that you will not be visiting again in the near future.

24
Thanks Jim2007. I obviously see your point. But I am looking for firm information here or official numbers. I am not trying to get anyone in trouble or break the law. Yes, it might be "bending" the rules though.

If an officer saw on his screen that I was still hanging around he would know that I am just a tourist enjoying the summer (as I am able to do). Even if I don't continue working with this company after my existing visa expires i am allowed to stay as a tourist for up to 3 months.

Thanks. Just trying get as much info as possible to evaluate my options.

25
No, you would be breaking the Swiss law by doing it that way, simply said. Either you are on holidays or you work here

26
Fair enough, I understood you were employed by a Swiss company, sorry for that.

The rest has been answered.

Since you're in fact planning to find a loophole by officially basing yourself in the US, but actually being here for three months on a "business trip", you're breaking the law. Simple as that.

Sure no one may notice. But you'll be in big trouble if they do and can expect a ban from CH and likely Schengen for quite a while.

My question about the L permit is still unanswered, though.

27
But that's not the scenario. You've already been here on a valid work permit. It sounds like no matter what we tell you, your mind is made up. Have fun, and let us know how you get on.

Don't forget - as a self-employed person you have extra fun with tax obligations .

28
Do you think you are only one to have come up with this cunning plan? They are far more experienced than you and have seen it all before so there is every chance they will pull you aside. I suppose if you only need three months and you have no problem with being bared from Western European for two to five years it might work for you....

29
Thanks for a lot of great input along with some great attitude. It's nice that everyone is so excited here and willing to help...but anyways....

It is also clear that everyone believes the scenario would be "breaking the law", and I am inclined to agree but I still have not seen proof or actual documentation of this anywhere. I also don't think it is as black and white as some say.

At the moment, we have Americans involved with the said project who are over here for weeks at a time for meetings and planning purposes. Not one of them requires a visa or special work permit.

So the question remains...at what point am I operating from the US and at what point am i breaking the Swiss law? I simply would like to find out a number of days or something that I would be limited to for business.

Samaire 13, I will follow up to your question tomorrow. I am going to inquire again about this tomorrow. Thanks

30
Let me tell you from experience that a North American colleague once tried this and one day, early in the morning, the police knocked on his hotel room door. He hasn ́t been able to visit Switzerland or Europe for quite some time

31
How is it not clear?

Taking up or continuing to work requires a work permit. Always. In pretty much every country but the one(s) you're a citizen of.

What's your plan then now? Your original idea was to live here as a tourist and continue to work. How anything about that is not "clear-cut" I don't know: you'd be a TOURIST, as the word says and a tourist is not allowed to work. Period. No exceptions. There is no grey zone.

Now your plan supposedly is to return to the US and come here on a "business trip", with no visa, within the 90 days you're allowed to stay here visa-free. If you're on an US (!!) contract, you may get away with this, i.e that one business trip you're planning to extend to three months for the sole purpose to circumvent the work permit regulations. But IF you are caught, well, we've already explained that.

You an apply for a C visa however, max. 3 months. You will likely need to leave the country for that.

None of this is an option if you're on a Swiss contract.

You've been unclear about whether you're a freelancer, employed by a US or employed by a Swiss company. It was quite clear from your first post that you were employed by a Swiss company, later you claimed that was just the client. I'm still not sure what's correct.

Also, good for you if there are many Americans around you that supposedly work without a permit and - presumably - no business visa either. Doesn't make it legal.

32
Sorry. I thought it was quite clear. I am currently employed by a Swiss company. I am suggesting here that once my visa expires I continue as a freelancer.

So your comment leads me to believe that anyone coming in to Switzerland for a business trip whether it be for 24 hours, 2 days, or 2 weeks needs a work permit. Even if they don't live here. Is this what you are suggesting Samaire13? I once remember something about 8 days or something. But still nobody can point me to something in writing.

I appreciate your comments.

33
Two differences between someone making a short business trip to Switzerland and your proposed solution is that the former is on a foreign company's payroll and lives abroad. Your proposed solution involves being directly paid by the Swiss company and continuing to live here.

Although I am enjoying your can-do attitude and search for a practical, simple solution, Samaire is knowledgeable about Swiss HR matters and I would encourage you to carefully consider his/her input.

34

This is what you’re talking about.

Visa requirements:
V1

Obligation to hold a visa with regard to exercising gainful occupation:

:black_medium_small_square: in the primary or secondary construction industry and civil engineering, catering and hotel services, industrial and private cleaners, surveillance and security services, and erotic services;

:black_medium_small_square: gainful occupation of any another kind, if such occupation exceeds 8 days within a calendar year.

Exemption to hold a visa with regard to exercising gainful occupation:

:black_medium_small_square: Holders of a long term residence permit issued by a Schengen member state or a valid type D visa, provided they also hold a recognized travel document.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home…_visum/v1.html

So if you need to be here for more than 8 days you would need a V1 business visa. If your colleagues don’t have this and have been here for more than 8 days then they are working illegally unless they hold a Schengen residence permit or a Type D visa.

35
Finally!

Thanks Medea. This might be what I was looking for. It seems like 8 days is the maximum.

and thanks again Mullhollander for your response.

36
Do not deduce from them not _having_ a permit that no permit is _required_.

Case in point: In Zurich, Huawei was shipping in a number of Chinese nationals, without any permit, and that resulted in a bit of a challenge for them - http://www.nzz.ch/nzzas/nzz-am-sonnt...igt-1.18021612