I don't claim to be especially creative but mine is definitely not a logical brain.... Still, I have discovered after all these years, concentrating on getting the hang of German and Swiss German, my powers of logic have definitely improved.
I had a smattering of French from high-school, which I would have preferred to learn better, simply because I liked the sound of it more and am always amazed at how much I still remember and even more surprised that I can (on hearing, providing they aren't speaking TOO fast) understand some of it still. I think it's cos I pick up on the words that are more or less the same in English,,,, even if the accent does throw me off the track sometimes... I can read it better than, either speak or hear it, unfortunatly it's still pretty minimal.
Some people learn languages more easily than others. I agree with you on the German being easier to learn, regarding pronunciation etc. What you see is what you say being the theory that helped me a lot.
I'm just glad to have got to the stage where I am now with my Swiss German,,,, as a Kiwi, am proud to say that I often get mistaken for being Dutch....
I take it as real compliment....
As for the sounds , it's like Scottish english , you have to roll your R's and kinda gurgle the CH sounds , my experience is that I cant here the break up of the words in French and it's spoken language has no real logic to how it's written ( why , probly to confuse the english -- but we won at Agincour anyway ) German however is easy to hear the sounds as is italian...
Not true about the creative / logic idea ... just the french trying to be clever.
Remember in switzerland ALL children have to learn swissgerman in school it's just the french DON'T want to speak it .. ever heard of the Rösti Graben? it's the language border that the french swiss don't want to cross.. sounds like I'm moaning but its realy frustrating trying to do bussines with them..
Up until 1066, English was a purely Germanic language derived from the West Saxon dialect but strongly influenced (especially in the North Eastern parts of the country) by other Germanic dialects - mainly by Old Danish.
After the Norman Conquest, a mixture of French and Danish (introduced by the Danes who had first settled in Northern France and later invaded the island) started creeping into the language. The influences were most strongly felt in the language of the elite. It took centuries until the French elements were also used by the common people.
Because of the latter, up until today, of the 2000 (or so) most frequently used words, almost 90 percent are of Germanic origin. Think of everyday words like mother, father, house (all West Saxon) or window, well, church/kirk (palatalized in Southern regions, not so in the North), shirt/skirt (the same), gate (all of Danish origin), all pronouns, most basic verbs (give, take, go, look, walk, see, say, lay etc.).
So, from the linguist's point of view, the following can be said in terms of the topic of this thread:
- German is the easier language to learn in terms of basic vocabulary.
- German is easier to learn in terms of pronunciation.
- French only has two genders while German has three - that's a bonus for French
- German has tons of grammatical exceptions, but so does French
- French has some very strange constructs like the subjonctif and the passé simple which are very hard to learn/understand for foreign learners
Generally I'd claim that German would be easier to learn for English speaking people in a German-speaking environment. Unfortunately, Switzerland isn't very well suited for that due to the dominant dialects here. There's nothing worse for a language student than to be surrounded by people who speak dialects closely related but still different from the language he or she is learning.
On the general point about English as a starting point for learning German or French. It's an interesting point. Obviously English is a Germanic language but it does have a very large amount of French (and Latin) vocab. There was some sort of a mix up in 1066 I believe.
And on the point about whether anyone speak high German natuarally: of course they do. My wife comes from near (not in!) Berlin and her family, who are not highly educacted, speak something very close to standard German. Of course there are region words u.s.w. but it's pretty much Hochdeutsch. Maybe it didn't arise 'naturally' as a language, I don't know about that. But then in a sense nor did any language. As soon as people started travelling and writing a certain degree of standardisation is bound to kick in.
fduvall
I have one question to english native speakers
What is for you more difficult to learn ?
French or High German ? And why ?
best regards from the heart of Europe
German, on the other hand, being a 'brother' language to English, and the language of two highly cultured peoples (and the Swiss, too), is much easier for the delicate xenoglossophobic Anglo-Saxon constitution to handle.
Furthermore, German is spelt properly, while French has this rather strange habit of being written nothing like how it is supposed to be spoken. Being a rational and logical creature, the Englishman naturally prefers the order and reason that lie behind written German.
Moreover, German can be used to discuss things important to a gentleman: Philosophy, politics, engineering, this kind of thing. Whereas French is only good for cads, bounders and the kind of people who eat food served in little towers on enormous white plates with 'jus d'escargot' on top. One may be able to seduce a lady with a smattering of Francais, but can one impress her father over a glass of port?
So, in conclusion, it is clear that an Englishman will always prefer German over French. Those fellows in the New World, however, with their erroneous notions of liberty, equality, fraternity and suchlike, may have a different opinion of the subject...
English is a bastardized mutt-dog of a language and has ended up with many latin-derived words in it. Many disciplines in English speaking societies use these words. There are all sorts of latin terms in Music and Cooking.
English grammar has much more in common with that of French than of German. The German cases and separable verbs are incredibly hard to deal with.
After two years of High School French class, I find I can read quite a bit, and understand a good deal of French television, movies and popular music.
However, there isn't as much good media in German as in French, and that makes it tougher.
Lastly, German seems to be a bit of a moving target. One can learn High German, but in many places it's tough to practice it, or even to hear it being spoken.
Let us know what you end up deciding on,
Darkphoenix
Having said all that, I still find French a much more pleasurable language to listen to and speak even though its much harder work. For example I have Serge Gainsbourg, Marc Lavoine, Johnny Halliday, Edith Piaf, Renaud et al tunes on my Ipod but I don't think I can even name a German singer??? That to me is the key to learning success, if you truly love and respect a culture you find learning their language a lot easier.
Further, it depends on the age of the person, the older the more difficult, kids learn in a jiffy, amazing!!
After a year of each, I would venture that your French would be better than your German, but after 2 years that would probably have changed as you've now got to grips with the German structure. I speak German quite happily, but I still prefer French.
BTW, I then went on to learn some Swedish and agree with Gooner that it's reasonably straightforward (!) after English/German, then I did some Spanish, and then British sign language. Once you've learned 'how to learn a language', each new one is easier than the last. I do get confused at times, especially when I know a word in (e.g.) French, but actually need it in Spanish, but overall I've only made a complete tw*t of myself a few... hundred... times
I think it is 50 /50, but French sounds nicer
German sounds sexy and with his bew castle from Germany he decided
to learn a little German. Wow !