Germany’s ‘Diesel Fear’ Leaves $5 Billion in Used Cars Gathering Dust

I thought it was banning new registrations, not the cars already bought and registered after a certain date.

Totally not understanding what Germanys kerfuffle over diesel is?

When I was in Africa in the mid-80s, factory refurbished cars from Japan were quite popular.

The story as told to us was that cars older than something like 5 or 7 years weren't allowed on the roads in Japan any more, and returned to the factory for refurbishment, then exported, obviously at a significant discount compared to a new car.

This made a lot of sense in a country which drives on the same side of the road as Japan and had 100% import duty.

The only snag with the Toyota we had for work was the wretched bell buried somewhere behind the dashboard which rang constantly as soon as you exceeded 100 km/h. That being a thing fitted on Japanese home market models back then.

It's a very good way of getting your products out at second hand prices.

In the early 90s Mercedes did this in the UK with their base model diesels. Nobody wanted to pay list price for a new one, so the Mercedes dealership salesmen got them for just long enough to justify selling them as second hand.

Related: in the UK, neither the Mark I Ford Escort nor the original Mini made a profit from their manufacture, but they did create very profitable replacement parts markets.

I worked for VW in the UK in the late 90s, and we had exactly the same arrangement. All staff were entitled to a new car every 3 months or 3'000 miles, creating a stream of 'used/approved' cars that lowered the price point without eroding the full retail price too much.

For some high-mileage drivers with long commutes, the cars were literally being replaced on a monthly basis.

In German cities after, 1. January 2018, there will be problems driving some cars on days declared to be heavy with air pollution.

https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/bw/fah...aw9/index.html

At the moment I can only find information from Stuttgart.

Translation:

In Stuttgart there will be driving bans from 2018, especially for diesel vehicles, to fight the fine dust. You can find out if, when and where you are affected.

Exhaust gases flow from the exhaust of a car.

Driving bans are the new battle of the state government against fine dust

What exhaust gas does your car have?

Whether your car is affected by the driving bans, the exhaust gas standard decides. Diesel vehicles which do not comply with the current Euro 6 standard must remain stationary on fine dust days from 2018 onwards. For many diesel owners particularly annoying, since the last Euro 5 cars could be acquired still 2015. The ban also applies to vehicles that are only a few years old.

Caution is also required with petrol engines, but only with very old cars. They must meet at least the Euro 3 standard to be able to drive on fine dust days.

By the way, you can find the emission class of your car at a key number in your vehicle ticket. You can find a tutorial here, for example. The Euro standard can be determined by means of the key number.

Where and when should the prohibition apply?

The driving bans in Stuttgart are to enter into force from 2018, but only on days when fine dust alarms are called. The traffic restrictions are to apply in the Talkessel as well as in parts of Feuerbach and Zuffenhausens.

This area is a little smaller than the environmental zone, which, according to a spokesman of the Ministry of Transport, has to do with the logistical effort involved in possible checks.

What are the exceptions?

The country expects that there will be exemptions for 20 percent of the affected vehicles. Transport Minister Winfried Hermann (Greens) is introducing examples of delivery traffic and craftsmen. A mechanic may use his vehicle despite a fine-dust alarm to drive to a customer in the city center.

The transport minister also mentions "hardships" as well as "special vehicles". Rescue services like the fire brigade or the police would not be affected either.

How should be controlled?

Hermann wants the blue plaque. However, as long as the Confederation does not approve this, the government considers the bans to be "Plan B". Signs should then point out.

According to Hermann, the controls would be "quite complicated" from an organizational point of view. By "coarse visual inspection", older diesel vehicles could already be driven out, in case of disputes, the vehicle papers would have to be checked.

How many vehicles are affected?

According to the city, 107,000 diesel vehicles are registered in Stuttgart, 73,000 of which do not comply with the exhaust gas standard of Euro 6. Although not all vehicles will be affected by an exemption. However, there are also many cars that have Stuttgart as their target.

The Ministry of Transport was unable to provide current figures on the affected petrol engines. However, there were very few cars.

https://interaktiv.kues.de/umweltplakette/

But were those cars really sold on?

I used to know a guy who woked for Mercedes and he said something similar but that those cars went back to Mercedes and were painstakingly dismantled and analyzed with almost forensic precision by the R&D guys to improve their understanding of the way parts aged. And because they needed large numbers of cars to make the statistics meaningful, almost everybody who worked there was given one to drive around in.

Yep, these all went straight into the VW-approved used scheme. They were basically run through the car wash, given a quick vacuuming inside, and put straight onto a forecourt.

Just as described above, I am not as worried of importing one but rather importing it and not being able to drive it, be it for city bans or canton/country bans.

Also, all articles ( including this one ) refer to cars with EURO5 engines.

It continues to read:

Does this mean EURO6 are safe or this is a wild guess and we should all go unleaded premium or electric...

Hat off to Tesla for this brilliant marketing; LinkedIn articles on Elon's brilliance incoming in 3,2,1...

if I would buy a new diesel, i would definitely go for one with an SCR kat as they should be safe. all other ones only with huge discounts.

Is there human short speak for this SCR sourcery? Is it included in EUR6, for example?

If you look into the details of the fear mongering are the cars hardly "collecting dust" but take 15 days longer to sell on average than a comparable petrol version. Hardly the end of the world.

Simple put: The emission levels in German cities are way too high, the number of people suffering from breathing problems went through the roof over the last 15 years. During that time did the number of cars increase, but especially "TDI" engines as they have a great tax advantage for anyone driving a lot. The governments job is to protect the wellbeing of the people and even the rather business friendly conservatives agreed that this is more important than revenues of a car companies. But they don't act according to these statements.

On top of that did we find out that all major car brands cheated on their emission levels. Besides the by now well known software hack have many dealers simply changed settings once the car went into the first service using a loop hole in the legislation that allows the emissions to be higher in order to prevent engine damage (that loophole was designed to counter extreme weather situations, not for every dealer to switch every car back to EUR 1 standards...)... so Diesel cars simply pump out a multiple of the emissions they are allowed to. Not one brand or one model, but pretty much all of the EUR 5-7 models. The major brands promised to switch the software back on and fix the ones with the fake software installed, but that's not going to work - there was a reason they came up with the cheat and that reason was that without it the engines did not meet the standards...

All in all can you sum up the story to: Most major car manufacturers (German as well as all others making diesel cars) have been poisoning all of us for the last decades knowing full well what they were doing. They decided that their revenue was more important than meeting pesky environmental standards.

So far has only one dude in the US been sent to prison, approximately 5000 (!) cases are in court in Germany (we dont have class action lawsuits, so you are on your own... good luck fighting VW!), the industry not willing to honestly fix the cars with the proper hardware that is available but costs about 1-1.5k per car... and a Mrs Merkel who says shit in the line of "lets invest into future technology instead of spending money on past mistakes". German consumers are expected to sell their cars back to the manufacturers and buy newer cars from the same people who cheated them before... and the worst thing is: They probably will. They also will re-elect the government who clearly doesn't intend to send the managers who are responsible to jail... and as long as this works will they of course cheat again.

If you want a really good 30mins of information you never wanted to worry about : http://www.daserste.de/information/r...rsten-100.html

Quite the opposite, I seek answers to the questions that are ahead of me and settle uncertainty and worries with information. At this point, I am

- nearing the season where it is no longer fun to travel bus-train-bus-walk twice a day

- considering the purchase of a second car

- seeking informed decision: diesel EU5/diesel EU6/hybrid/petrol

Simple, informed choices is where I am at. Got tips, I am all ears

It depends strongly on what you want to do with the car.

Are you looking for a 5.000,- car that you plan to keep 3 years and perhaps slightly longer, or spend 40.000,- on a car that you will sell after 2 years, or spend 40K and plan to keep the car as long as with repairs is economically wise?

In the first situation, who cares buy what you want. In the second situation selling value is important, so just read up on the upcoming plans for Switzerland since they will effect your value. In the last situation it does not matter so much unless you drive regularly in a town that might implement rulings within the next years.

I would avoid all Diesel unless you are going to drive more than 40k a year - it's just a matter of time till some cities will ban them altogether. I personally don't trust second hand hybrids yet, as the durability of the batteries are a bit questionable. So I'd recommend a good old petrol car....

Seems that the best investment at the moment is a ancient Merc 200 running on "H" registered plates.

I will be sad to see the end of diesel cars, I love mine and I'm sure I'm not alone. 1000 km on a single tank of fuel, that never gets old

Same here. I would never again buy a diesel car. Even if you drive 40k a year it doesn't change the fact that (e.g. for BMW 5 series) it takes about 150-200k kms just to break even (530d being 6000CHF more expensive than 530i).

Yeah, 1000km s on a tank, but for that you have the smell, the ugly noise and the particles. No thank you.

Your maths arent right.

Take the BMW 520 / 520D in the UK.

BMW 520

184PS

£35835

50mpg (claimed)

70l fuel tank (18 gallons)

=900 miles per full tank.

Average price of Petrol 114.7p/l

£80.29 per full tank of petrol

=£0.09 per mile.

BMW 520D

190Ps

£38010 (+£2175)

72mpg (claimed)

70l Fuel Tank (18 gallons)

=1296 miles per full tank

Average price of diesel 117.4 p/l

£82.18 per full tank.

=£0.06 per mile.

that suggests 129,000km to make up the difference in price.

Now, granted, these are aspirational numbers, but when you take into account you can usually pick up a car for significantly less than the MSRP, and the fact that fuel prices fluctuate a lot, and the fact that tax breaks exist for diesel cars, it takes far less than 129kkm to break even.

And, this ignores the reliability, the performance, and the longevity differences between petrol and diesel.

Its not really a false economy, its just a poor economy for some,d epending on circumstances.

Also, to hammer the point home:

most companies keep their company cars until 150,000km.

If we assume that after tax break and a lower MSP (businesses dont pay VAT on company cars, remember) they need 100,000km to break even, that means they save 1500£, per car, if they buy a diesel.

If this car is sold to a buyer who keeps it until 300,000km (not too uncommon), then they will save £4500 in running costs, by buying a diesel instead of a petrol, as well as more in repair costs.

So financially, there is a real incentive to buy diesels, new and used.