Tom
What Ricardo email?
Check "postfach" under your account. I dont think you get an email adress to that "account", its more like an internal messaging system. I get copies of mails from sellers there and stuff (also sent to my private email)
I have a similar situation with a company call EOS who are trying to get me to pay for an alleged foreign debt from some years ago for which I have no knowledge. In my case, I am not entering into discussion with them at the moment but if I do, it will be some simple questions:
1. Do they have power of attorney to act on the behalf of the company or entity claiming to be owed money?
1a. Can they provide any evidence of a contract between myself and the company or entity?
2. Are they acting under the statute of limitations of the debt for that jurisdiction?
3. Inform them they can swivel on the OR 106 "costs"
My expectation is that they will not try to file a Betreibung in my case but if they do, it will be rejected very quickly and clearly based on the above points. Right now, I have a nicely-worded invitation to cave to fear and pay for something I have no knowledge of.
And since the bill they're suggesting I owe is foreign, it's unlikely that they can enlighten me into what it's actually for. So I would assume any Betreibung will fail once I reject it.
Sorry I can't let that stand, Hells Angels have honor.
You've been watching too much Sons of Anarchy!
see attached
I couldn't disagree more - not on paying speeding tickets, but with relation to this case. Once you paid it's your onus to get the money back, which at least in this case is likely to cost you way more than you paid in the first place.
why would you pay a fine / bill that you don't owe?
EDIT: beaten by Urs Max!
Sometimes extreme disshonesty/narcissm needs to be dealt with, in turn, with extreme measures. Thats life and if you cannot stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. Just dont get personal thats all.
As the poker gurus will tell you, leave your emotion at the door.
I'm not sure what this means and is it relevant?
Obviously its a case by case situation. Some weird invoice from some un-known company for some alleged speeding ticket in italy 3 years ago, sure dont pay.
But in this case he clearly owed the money (even if it was ricardos fault they never sent an invoice) and Intrum is not some little scam company run from a garage.
Rather then risking getting an unpaid debt on your record, i would in this case just pay them and then fix it after. I mean how much are we talking here, ricardos fees are low and interest plus fee on that can't be much - 30 chf?
The weight of evidence would suggest that in fact they are (except for the garage bit that is).
I genuinely fail to see why you are so vigorously defending a company that has already been targetted by a well known, legitimate watchdog body i nCH as essentially a company WITHOUT the legal power to enforce the outrageous fines it charges.
Maybe he works there.
Tom
I dont give a shit about the company - my point was that its better to pay up and complain later if you get a mahnung for something you know you have forgotten or for any reason failed to pay .
Why are you so vigorously refusing to trying to see my point?
Anyways my work here is done, OP good luck with all this!
Nobody contested this. The problem with inkasso companies is not that they ask you to pay what you should... but slap 100% fees on top which are illegal. If you refuse to pay the illegal bit will they continue to send you more reminders... and harass you. Your point to first pay all of it and then complain about the overcharge is simply wrong - you will never ever see your money back.
This is from the initial post.
Connect the dots.
They told me that they sent the bill by email. I received plenty of other emails from them though, such as newsletters and updates on the status of the auction; so I know they were capable of sending emails to this address.
I used an email address with a plus sign in it, followed by a tag (e.g., [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) ). I often do this so that I can tell if a company that asks for my email address ever sells it to spammers. This is a standard, if lesser-known, part of the SMTP protocol specification. My suspicion is that Ricardo’s billing system did (does?) not know how to handle email addresses like this.
They never sent me the bill by postal mail either — not even by normal post, much less registered post.
Oh, that reminds me of a lovely Catch-22 situation that arose during this whole mess: at on point, Ricardo told me I could see proof that they had sent me the emails, by logging into my account and looking in the mailbox you mentioned. The only problem is that in order to log in, my account had to be in good standing. And for that, I would have to pay.
They sent my a screenshot that appeared to show that they had sent not just the original email, but also a couple of reminders. I received none of these messages.
having had a chat with one or two legal people (I get to work with them on a regular basis so I'm calling in favours this week ), there are two key points to the validity of any claimed debt.
If they send you a Betreibung and you reject it ("Ich erhebe vollumfänglich Rechtsvorschlag") then they must prove that you owe it. In the case for me, I doubt this evidence (and much other evidence) exists - but for the OP, I would say it opens an interesting case.
1. If Ricardo blocks you from being able to look at your account (and correct your situation) then you are unable to verify a bill
2. If a bill is sent as a PDF attachment via email, you can cast doubt that you received it - but in your case, you can present evidence that you paid a bill to Ricardo
I would simply reject it and if asked, bring the evidence that you paid the (or an) amount to Ricardo and that you have been blocked from your account so you cannot verify whether that is for the full amount.
I wonder if you (or I) will ever see a Betreibung. Mine will either stop this week completely or run for a month or two. I intend to start invoicing them for my time and expenses if it continues.