I don't want an IKEA house!

Complaints Corner
21
I have a lot of empathy towards the OP as we experienced the same thing. It is not only the style but also finding a architect/builder who will combine everything and find a practical approach to it.

Our experience is not to settle for what is offered as a standard and not to accept that this is 'the swiss way' or worse 'the swiss law'. Check all of it yourself.

Finally we found a builder who was also an architect in Lausanne. Still a lot of discussion and still a lot of correcting errors but at least there was 1 only one approach and one plan etc.

I have build before and was used to have a handyman around who was able to do all the general simple stuff. I must admit these we did not find here in Switzerland. There are specialists for everything and they do not wish to work together. They also like to say it is the other his fault when something goes wrong.

So in short, do not give up. it is possible. you are the owner of the house after all.

22
On the local rules. I am sure you can download those from the Gemeinde website. Get your plans and go talk to the Gemeinde. They will be happy to help and give you suggestions. It is their job and they are always very curious.

If I understand OP than there is not a lot that would need permission as a kitchen, floor and internal walls would not need any. The windows probably only need an approval from the neighbour if it is a big change. As said see your commune/Gemeinde

23

Marrying eras is one of the most challenging things to pull off with interior design. Some eras simply don't gel together which is why designers may be pushing you down a certain route. Ultimately you make the decisions. You may find it easier to Pinterest what you like - print it out and present a folder of your ideas. Pictures speak a thousand words and all that jazz.

A rough rule of thumb is 1,000chf per day in labour and incidental material costs - then 400chf per 1000kg in recycling. Taking down internal walls and building new ones and making good is never quite as easy as it sounds - and matching tongue and groove can be a pain in the back side to do.

Budget around 1,000chf per m2 for new windows - enlarging one can get really expensive really quickly.

What you need is a Project Manager - which ultimately is what you're buying in the UK when you go to a general builder. In Switzerland people are qualified to do their jobs - the carpenter, plumber, builder, electrician - all completed their respective apprenticeships worked for a while and then, in quite a few cases, set up their own company. They know their trade inside out but aren't necessarily the best and knowing when their trade happens in a project. A project manager will (often) charge just a % on top of the trades but should be able to negotiate decent prices.

The property market in Switzerland is not the same as it is in the UK (or even the US) - there is a different mindset, aimed more at buying for life. The tax regime almost encourages homeowners to invest in their property which means that professionals are called in to complete the work.

24
Thanks all for your inputs. I was under the perhaps mistaken impression that the architect in Switzerland is the equivalent of the project manager in other countries. And I'm happy to pay for that co-ordination, but when the architects want us to move to starkly modern.....

I have finally realised that part of the issue is living in a regional area - we don't get the choice of services available in the cities, and the city specialists don't want or need to travel to take on new work.

I also fully respect and admire the Swiss having such a specialist view to their trades and from what I've seen the quality of work is first rate (putting aside the cost). That said, it's a pain in the you know as the consumer who just wants to spend money and have magic happen!

25
Indeed. Foreigners have strange ideas of values, which can lead to expensive mistakes by weighting certain characteristics according to the market back home instead of here. Wanting to live in an 'authentic' old property could be one manifestation of this. Great if you can afford it, but don't expect to get all your money back when you sell up. Maybe a more obvious one, particularly where people come from places where blocks of flats are associated with social needs housing, is to give a very high weight to a free standing house, which may distort their budgeting for living costs. When in Rome, [consider] do[ing] as the Romans do.

26

Yep, done all that right from the start to ensure these projects were even worth contemplating; and have already canvassed all of our neighbours to check their appetite for the changes (would rather know in advance if there's likely to be any objections) . The Gemeinde team know me well - the crazy Auslander who was checking on building permits for Essen Treppen, instead of Drausen Treppen for an additional project - building external stairs from one terrace to another!

27

The project manager (Bauleiter) and architect played very different roles in our renovation.

The key person to getting it all done was the Bauleiter. He was the one with extensive trade experience, he was the one making plans, setting schedules, pulling the various players all together, he was the one doing quality control.

The architect drew pretty pictures. The pretty pictures would have been more useful, however, if he had gotten the building dimensions correct, or checked building restrictions first....

As you can guess, I came away with a very low opinion of the architect. The architect contributed little and his fee was a small fortune. He was a IMO hindrance rather than a help. The only reason he was involved was that the Bauleiter, who came strongly recommended, worked for his firm. I had to hire the architect in order to get the Bauleiter. The Bauleiter was excellent, by the way.

If I were to do it again in Switzerland I would try to find an independent Bauleiter to head the project, without an architect involved in the actual work. As you likely have found, though, one often needs an architect simply to sign the plans, in order to get permits. In my next go round I will try to separate those pieces, limiting the architect's involvement. And as you also may have found, using a locally connected architect, Bauleiter, tradesmen, is often an unwritten, unspoken quid pro quo in getting permits as well.

Good luck with your project...

28
There is also a world of difference between:

"I want x, y and z done" to "How can I marry these 2 styles? I also want x, y and z done"

Houses built in the 50-70s have different room proportions and layouts to modern open plan living (as I know with out current house). You have to allow for this when you purchase and consider how you'll renovate the house. I have posted a link to the beobachter site numerous time - it provides indicative costs for renovations.

How long have you owned the place? How long have you lived in it?

EDIT: Is this the same project you posted about 3 years ago?

29
Yep, think my very first post on EF was a plea for recommendations of specialists. At that point we had owned and lived in the house for 9 months. We did the rounds of architects and decorators at that time - with a very clear brief on the renovations we wanted, plus raising the dilemma of marrying old to new, and I went into all meetings with a detailed spec for renovations/repairs and a series of picture boards regarding styles etc.

Putting aside the astonishment we had on the pricing that is part of living in Switzerland, we put the whole thing on hold because of our frustration in the specialists wanting to IKEA our house.

We've been good little monkeys in the last 3 years - met lots of Swiss, been lucky enough to get invites into their homes, talked to them extensively about the style differences and the reasons for new, new, new. Talked with Swiss who are building their own homes to understand their thinking and to get their recommendations on architects/tradies. All to avoid us barging into this as silly foreigners.

We've tempered our original plans now we better understand the costs involved, and also with a view to "what buyer would this house appeal to if we ever had to sell"; and just been on the rounds again with specialists to get the work done that is needed.

And even with a more informed view, we're still struggling to make the project happen (thus this post of yesterday). Clearly we're not the clever monkeys we thought we were!

We have both renovated extensively in the past in several other countries, and are very aware of the need for details and clarity up front; and of the difficulties in matching woods, moving walls, plumbing, electrics etc. We're spreadsheet and project map and storyboard junkies - so the issue has never been about us being wishy-washy in the message of what we want to achieve.

Maybe a higher power just wants us to hold onto our dosh?! Sigh.

30
We moved into our late 50s house just under 3 years ago with grand plans of what we wanted to do and when. The realization is that we can neither afford to do the grand plans nor actually need them and instead have tried to focus on a tax and usage optimized renovation plan.

The house was last renovated in the late 80s and so when we moved in EVERYTHING felt like it needed replacing and our eyes missed some of the maintenance debt that had built up in that time. On the HEV report for the house it does say that the layout could/should be optimized - and I agree - it is far from perfect and doesn't fit modern living, but we are of the opinion that it is easier to adapt the way you live than the house. If wanted a single 70m2 kitchen/dining/living space we'd but a modern apartment!!

Here has been our work schedule (including reference to professional work (company and location))

Year 1

The ground floor was painted (white) except for the WC (self)

Main bedroom was painted (self)

The excessively large tree in the front garden was removed (name forgotten)

Extensive general garden maintenance (self)

Large tree in rear garden chopped to 1.8m high (self)

External windows painted (Killer (Not making it up!!), Spreitenbach)

Built numerous shelving in the garage and cellar (self)

Installed old kitchen cupboards in the garage (self)

Year 2

Largest spare bedroom was painted (self)

Bathroom was painted, carpet (2 layers) was removed and laminate (slate tile effect) laid (self)

Shower room carpet removed and laminate laid (self)

Ground floor cloakroom painted (in original style colours); carpet removed, foam packing removed, original tiles polished (self)

Swimming pool top surround removed and replaced (self)

Built shed (self)

Original internal doors and frames painted (Killer, Spreitenbach)

Extensive general garden maintenance (self)

Living room and bedroom window ledges removed, sanded and varnished (self)

Living room and study radiators painted (self)

Year 3 (current)

Extensive general garden maintenance (self)

Painted the driveway walls (self)

Built 3 large raised beds with top plinth (self)

Lined to planting beds (self)

Built a haha (low retaining wall for the terrace) (self)

Built a new terrace with traditional blockpaving/slab pattern (self)

Built a new garden fence - 25m*1.5m (RTN on here, self)

Built a new retaining wall behind garden gate (self)

Removed 1.8m high tree from rear garden (self)

Cleared 1.05 tons of garden rubbish (Frei recycling skip hire / self)

Painted another bedroom and furnished as a study (self)

Removed built storage in dining room (self)

Removed carpet and renovated original parquet flooring in dining room (self)

Removed carpet and renovated original parquet flooring, painted and fitted new skirting board in living room (self)

Year 4

New kitchen - including merging kitchen and dining room; new kitchen flooring, new windows in that room inc doubling the size of the terrace door plus all additional trades (TBC)

Smallest bedroom to be painted (self)

Main bedroom carpet to be replaced (TBC)

Year 5

Replace remaining windows (TBC)

Replace bath only (TBC)

Year 6

New driveway (TBC)

31
That is one heck of a work schedule. Ours in the last 3 years has some similarities - lots of "self" work, but we've now reached a point where specialists are best utilised. Thanks for the info dodgyken - fancy coming to play on a ski mountain and doing some house renos in your "spare" time?!!

32
It is tough work finding someone to work with here without stepping outside the "Swiss norms", a lot put it in the two hard basket (which sometimes it is!) but are too polite to say no directly so you get a bit of hmms and eerrs and waffle. It is a tough one marrying two different styles together when you do not want to see any more (granit/tiles) of one style in the rest of the house and do it on a tight budget.

Maybe give up on looking for a one stop shop, you may have to project manage this yourself. Breakdown the tasks to areas and having dot pointed those areas get offers on a fixed specification of work. Maybe have a look at rentarentner.ch (I think) and see if you can find a retired carpenter to do some odd jobs and advise you.

Wood on wood is okay but not if there is variations in colour, tone, species, style and era. While you don't want white walls or ceilings it is the easiest way to get a backdrop to display your furniture, again think politeness rather than ignorance of your demands/wishes. So following that theme how or is it possible to get some universal colour or finish on the walls / ceilings /floors? Just because you have a bunch of great ingredients doesn't mean it will bake a good cake is probably the best analogy.

What I would suggest is to consider stripping and toning the woodwork with coloured oil to at least get tonal matches in the wood. It is fair to assume that current wood is yellowish in colour (given the 70s build date) and your older furniture is redish/brow/mahogany these are never going to match, if this is the case imho. Whitewashing the walls (but still showing the timber) or maybe a grey/brown keeping it light as possible but just dark enough to lose the yellow. Then it comes down to using as much granite in the house as possible so there is not a stark difference in styles, this will actually soften the bathroom. Ideas - put a granite slab on a sideboard to or kitchen benchtop , collect a few random pieces, drill and glue a screw in the back to use as handles - kitch but could be cool. Going the other way, try to get some old wood in the bathroom, an old ladder as a towel rail, wooden skis or a toboggan converted to shelves. There is also reproduction old wood which is not that expensive and can be made to order to cover one wall. Blending and matching is the key then add a bunch of bursts of colour in accessories vases, cushions, pictures, afghan rugs ect, what ever you have collected from your travels.

A friend of mine is a photographer and he and his wife have done a great job here http://www.iez27.ch/goms/unser-stadel/ , it is not a light room but the attention to detail is great. I can maybe help you out with a few things but I am booked pretty solidly for the first half of the year, pm me if you want more assistance. Finally this sort of work is a labour of love so expect to get your hands dirty or have not much return on a large investment but you will have the house of your dreams.

33
I haven't been in contact wit interior architects in CH, but my experience with them in Norway was that they really wanted me to adopt their own idea of style, which btw was more or less the same variation of shabby chic for all of them, rather than helping me with a technical issue within the boundaries of my personal taste. Nothing fancy, it was a bathroom that had to be competely re-done but the room was so big we wanted to use the space in an intelligent manner but most definitely not shabby chic. Anyhow, I ended up drawing it myself, paid the interior architect to do the technical plans based on my drawings and I got the work done. For the rest of the flat with the exception of the kitchen where the kitchen company had an interior architect helping me with the plans (that part was fun), I did the thinking myself and I was very hapoy with the result.

It seems you have two problems. One is aesthetics, where you wish you had help deciding on how to move forward with the work. Three options: 1) find a professional that wants to work with your vision, preferably recommended by someone you know, and be very clear about what you want (show pictures, show pieces of furnitures in your house that you want to showcase, in other words, describe your vision as precisely as possible); 2) get someone who is not a professionnal to be yur sparring partner on issues of interior decoration (and use professionnals to do the work you can't do yourself); 3) do the thinking alone, use professionnals as needed.

It helps to divide the work into pieces with clearly defined scope and identify where you need outside help and what kind of help. Also identify what had to be done and what can wait. Design wise, it helps to be able to wait and see what works and what doesn't.

Now, and this is where it gets tough when you live abroad and don't have the contacts, you need to find people who may not share your vision but who can respect it and work within its scope. My usual sparring partner and the guy who did the work was a carpenter recommended by the previous falt owner. We never discussed style or aesthetics, I'm sure he didn't like what he did. But with him I got a sense of what was possible and practical and we found a technical solution that worked with the style I wanted. For the windows, I asked a colleague who had done similar work in his house and he recommended a good window guy. Again, no point in trying to find someone who likes my style in Norway (I'm very zen minimalistic), but finding the right supplier and get a dialogue going.

Our programme during the 4 years we owned it (3 of which we lived in it):

Year 1:

Re-paint everything (me and my dad)

New kitchen

Built-in closet in both bedroom

New bathroom

New wall in living room, sliding doors

Year 2:

New wood stove

New windows in 3 rooms

Year 3:

Nothing

Year 4:

Completely new terrasse, which we never got to use since we sold the flat a few months later

My next cunning plan (devised with my favourite carpenter, who had poor taste but good ideas) was to move a bedroom door and build in a third bedroom. And buy the attic to make a parental suite. Let's say Trollefar is very happy we sold the flat and we're done with the eternal renovation program.

34
Wow impressive lists. Must get around to make ours- so far, apart from the new Italian shower-room (yes, big grey tiles... in a 16C house)... the back car porch and balcony, the new big patio and solar panels - all the work done just can't be seen (electrics, central heating, retaining tank for oil tank, new boiler, treatment for minor wood-worm for 17C roof beams, etc).

Kitchen next, I think.

35
Ah, a kindred spirit! We bought a traditional "Heidi" style chalet in the French Alps 3 years ago and we had to make it fit with our design aesthetic, which is mid-century modern. It is certainly possible to mix two styles, but you are probably going to have to do everything yourself.

To mix Victorian/Edwardian (dark, heavy, ornate case pieces and tufted/overstuffed upholstered pieces) successfully with lighter pine walls, ceilings and floors, I would recommend going all in. Really embrace it and just go for it. Buy ornate gold or bronze lighting fixtures and bathroom fixtures. Buy the darkest wood furnishings you can find, (black forest walnut would be spectacular). Pile not one, but three, rich red and blue Persian rugs haphazardly on top of each other and cover all of the floors. Stick with reds and golds as your accent colors. Hang giant oil paintings on the walls. Think sconces dripping with crystals. Think candelabras on the mantle. Some large dogs in front of the fire would be great.

My two styles don't go together either but we are staying the course and doing one room at a time. I can post some pictures, if you want.

36
Possibly I didn't speak to the right interior people, but my impression was that their job was to show me how current trends would work in my interior rather than following my personal taste. Teaching me taste instead of building up on mine.

Which leads me to conclude that hiring someone for interior tips when you have very strong opinions on the matter is a bit like hiring a personnal stylist when your clothing style is Japanese-Emo and you want to keep it. Nothing wrong with both sides, but bound not be able to find a middle ground.

Work on your vision, and keep it yours.

37
If the architect doesn't understand your taste you can't expect him to act on it. You can't expect people to do something they just don't understand. Surely there must be architects who do get it out there.

38

PML. Heidi chalet on the outside, OTT theatre on the inside - what fun! We have the whopping great art. We have the oriental rugs. Yep, definitely have some overstuffed furniture. No candelabra - ceilings too low but I love the idea of crystal sconces! We also have plenty of candles everywhere instead and probably too many gilt framed mirrors. Yes, it all sounds quite garish, but hey, it is no coincidence that my Swiss girlfriends (all in their 50's and old enough to know better) elect to come to my house, kick off their crocs and sprawl about drinking vino - they don't want to visit to each others homes, so maybe the mashed up decorating is working!

Pics are a great idea. Would love to see some. I'll get sorted to get some on tomorrow as well. Maybe we should start a whole new thread - decorating ideas from the auslanders in Swissy (because then we won't be on track for chatting in the complaints area)?!

39

Agree, but I phone interviewed 22 architects in advance of booking meetings with 7 - I was clear up front with all about scope/style etc and had checked their online portfolios of work to ensure they weren't all about the "newness of things", and when they met me at my home I shared further style boards etc. The short list of 7 still wanted to IKEA my house, without exception. Sigh.

40

I think you're onto something here. Easier to run me in circles than just tell me they don't want to do the work for the Auslander with crazy ideas up on the mountain!

Certainly in our area of CH - once a house is built, its built. No renovations to speak of, unless a whole floor is being added or the old house is being torn down and rebuilt. Our work needs are just not big enough in the scheme of things I guess. In fairness, I had the same issue with a London house - it needed gutting, rewiring, replumbing, new kitchen, plastering throughout, new loft and staircase. But because I didn't want to add an extra one or two storey's with some monster sized extension on the ground floor, it was difficult to find an architect and a builder who wanted to take on such a "small" job. Supply and demand eh?