Oh wait, well done you Kiwis
But what about about the Alinghi team ?
I always believed, I don't anymore, that Geneva could and should have a football team that could compete at a very high level. Especially as it is a rich place with many resources.
It could have an academy for youngsters/kids which could be unrivaled.
But it doesn't.
Maybe because they just don't believe that sport is that important. Maybe that's correct. On the other hand why not?
Nah, it's my standard reaction against borderline xenophobic rants...The irony being that I would be a great example of your little theory about the Swiss not being team players, I'm a quite individualistic yet this is something that my group of friends in Geneva has noted upon and commented as they are much more willing to surrender to the group mentality (in our case, a group of football/hockey supporters) than I am.
Anyhow, there is ample systemic evidence that Switzerland is a country which relies a lot on consensus decision, at every level, which is why things seem to take a long time to be processes, because there is a constant consultation of all the involved parties. There has been a fair amount of moaning about the impending demise of this due to pressure from more "American" ways of dealing with things - imposing decisions from the top down as well as calls for this to happen more, give decision makers greater freedom to push through changes.
This could actually go some way to explain Swiss attitudes, this idea that everyone is right in some way and that a common ground has to be found, rather than someone turning up, stamping his authority and deciding that he is right (just look at Bush and Blair for great evidence of that kind of culture )
Maybe the reason you have constant issues with your Swiss team-members Philip are down to your methods of working rather than theirs, maybe they expect you to be more "collegial" rather than impose what you think is the right way. Maybe you are the problem rather than them, it would be interesting to hear their opinion of you
On that subject, God knows I agree with you...SFC has a pretty good academy anyhow, good work is being done there.
I have made an accurate reflection on what I see everyday. I have supported and given recommendations to management on Swiss colleagues who have merited it. (and anybody else for that matter.).
If a person doesn't merit it, I don't say anything, unless they are bad and I have to do something about them.
Your answer is what I would expect. It is loaded with prejudice.
Prejudice? Are you having a giggle lad? Your first post on this forum was basically to call every single Swiss a "cop"...
I merely put forward the ever so daring suggestion that the people you had problem with (and you said yourself it seems to be only the Swiss which are a problem in your team) might also have grievances with you.
Your feeble efforts at trying to persuade people that they are not is amusing sonny.
Don't tempt me...
I observed that the problem seemed to be that people had trouble dealing with each other as equals in team situations. Given the chance, they'd endlessly squabble over who had the upper hand.
In a team in CH what you really need is the firm hand of strong leadership. Once you've stamped your authority, people fall into line.
I observed that Germans seemed to be best at this and as a result were zooming up the management ranks in the organisation where I worked. Speaking high German definitely helped them too - having a German boss in the meeting meant everyone had to switch to the lingo and a lot of people had problems arguing effectively in Hochdeutsch with a 'native' speaker. It made it a lot easier for the boss to get their way.
That's right. Unless you stamp you authority, there will be endless squabbles, and it's a mess.
Gav, I don't doubt what you say, but how is that different from in the UK, to choose a country we both know? I have witnessed people squabbling for authority in a team in the UK, I have witnessed the "strong hand" of leadership too and people falling into line (right now my team is under a weak team leader and as a consequence, we all try to grab our share of power because we know we can. In previous accounts, I had the same kind of leadership or a strong TL, one for whom the team would indeed fall into line for). The only big difference I noticed is the propensity of people to socialise after work.
Aside from the German bosses imposing their language, authority and forcing their ways (nothing new there I guess ) which might be indeed specific to German speaking Switzerland, what you describe in the rest of your post is found all over the place.
I am of course, generalising. Whilst that sort of situation crops up regularly everywhere, I noticed that it was much more typical where I worked.
I also noticed the 'squabbling for the upper hand' thing just seemed to occur a lot more often in every kind of dispute, not just in work. Seemed that people always took a combatitive approach and most 'discussions' just turned into a struggle for power. No-one ever wanted to admit they had got something wrong and that made resolving a lot of stuff difficult. There just didn't seem to be much goodwill or give and take when it came to dealing with contentious issues.
I'll refer to you to the post by ExpatGuys in this thread, he is pretty much on the ball about the whole thing.
And that is different from elsewhere how? I've seen this everywhere I have worked.
It's much worse when it's done by the Swiss though
Having an intellectual debate is one thing - taking that sort of attitude into everyday life and applying it to how you deal with disagreements or problem situations is quite another.
If you are brought up that way, it's a bit hard to get rid of it although this seems to be more a German thing rather than a Swiss-German one, the poor buggers have on hone hand the enormous Germanic influence and their own consensual culture to accomodate.
Everywhere in the world is like this. Here it's a bit more complicated. As is always there are variations due to the local culture which in this case try their hardest to get the upper hand, inspite of leaving the job unattended in proving the point.
Swiss Romande or French, they are very similar.
I wouldn't confuse squabbling for the upper hand with squabbling for power. My experience is that power = responsibility and that is what most of the squabbling is about (i.e. who is responsible for something going wrong). What I tend to see is the squabbling to prove a point and to win an advantage against someone without backing down. Which was the point that I was trying to make with my example of legalised mugging. The last thing anyone wants here is responsibility, that would put them in the firing line.
Quite. Sheep mentality.