So, it gets very complicated!
Tom
Yes, we each have two adult children (plus I have a further two adult "step-children", of which I am the sole legal parent).
Interesting. Our children and grand-children live in the UK and are British, although could acquire Swiss nationality should they wish to.
Obviously Tom, this contradicts what we were clearly told by the solicitor, eg that the pact/contract legally replaces the 50/50 rule and allows us to pass 100% to surviving partner. I will therefore make absolutely sure that we understand this absolutely correctly. Thanks.
Please let us all know what you find out!
For better or worse, things are very constrained here (and in Italy as well).
Tom
is there a way of renouncing your children? sounds like a simpler method!
This is how it was explained to us - the obligatory heirs must consent to 'their' portion of the estate going to the surviving spouse. Without such a consent, the obligatory heirs (children, parents - there's a whole inheritance tree) can challenge any other arrangements made.
The lawyer we spoke with suggested that such consent be put into writing - because while everyone might be in agreement now , we all know that things can change.
(The Swiss system of obligatory inheritance is one of the reasons we will not consider applying for Swiss citizenship - as foreigners we claim Heimatrecht, meaning we are free to do as we wish - that is, we have written our wills under our country's inheritance laws.)
Indeed, on the other hand I find the Swiss system to be totally fair (i.e. can't leave your estate to your cat).
Tom
"In writing" is not enough - get it notarised.
Very good point about the ability to choose Heimatrecht.
Right. This doesn't impact your family so much (I assume) since your situation is "easy" in that you have one husband and the children are both of yours.
The complication could come later on with second spouses & their children vs the first set of children, etc a la Tom's situation.
The pact will pass the 50% to the surviving spouse until the time the second spouse passes. But once that surviving spouse passes then, I believe, the surviving spouse is not in control of the first spouses 50%. It still goes back up to the rules of succession for the first spouse. Point being it's a temporary measure and doesn't exclude children of previous marriages from inheriting.
This is how I understood it. Anyway, we don't have the problem with children. We have a problem with a MIL, in case something (god forbid) happens to my DH.
I don't know. I have some problems with it. I agree people shouldn't leave their estates to the cat. But I do think that in some cases kids should be disinherited & I don't think parents should inherit. But that's my POV.
Ah but you see... thanks to being able to claim Heimatrecht, that is exactly what I have done.
(It all goes to the dogs. After I'm gone I'd rather my hard-earned pennies be used to feed homeless animals than my worthless relative's coke habit. )
Get it in writing, yes!
But, my girlfriend and her sister were screwed over by their mother who convinced them to sign over "usofrutto" for EVERYTHING (not just the house), so they have lived for years in poverty.
Meanwhile, said mother can't sell anything, as it's all "COMMUNE EREDITARIA" due to the Usofrutto, nor can she give it to anyone else! (communal property), and thus even a will is useless! (when she dies, all property is to divided by the surviving members)
Best is to die with nothing (certainly my plan!)
Tom
I think you should have the right to choose, if 1 of your children was a drug addict, being able to prevent them getting their hands on 'your' money & wasting it is not such a bad option.
Maybe the inheritance contract refers to a usufruct? In this case your children's can't claim their statutory portion ( art. 473 zgb; http://http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/210/a473.html
Hmmm, how did you know about my GF's sister?
Tom
P.S. Not joking.
If it is a life estate / usufruct, they don't have to claim - it's already theirs, it's just that the only person who can use it it the surviving spouse (until (s)he remarries).
That's the trouble with most Continental inheritance law systems. Of course you can disinherit children under exceptional circumstances, but these are quite exceptional really - being wasteful will usually not cut it.
That's terrible. There's always hope she gets her act together.
Anyway, I'm already on the path to dying with nothing except for a whole lot of black shoes! LOL.
Yes, i agree, but they can't challenge the usufruct invoking a violation of their right to the legal portion.
Going off on a tangent for a moment, but this thread reminded me...
Some time ago I was in negotiations to buy a property; the sellers were a couple who were eager to get rid of the drafty old house and retire some place warm and sunny.
Things were going along nicely until the couple's son threatened to block the sale - on the grounds that as an obligatory heir he had an interest in the house.
That sent me skedaddeling - the last thing I wanted was to get caught in the cross-fire of a family feud.
But I've always wondered about the legality of the son's position - under Swiss inheritance law, does an obligatory heir have any claim on the family fortune while mom and dad are still alive and kicking?
No claim while they're alive. They can sell as they please. But I've heard that line ("They're selling my inheritance" - "Look, actually it isn't your inheritance until your parents are dead, and even then it isn't if they cut you out of the will.") often enough. Hell, the Daily Mail could made a headline out of it!
being an expert on swiss law* as well as swiss women, i would conclude: no. presumably you can only inherit an estate and if they sell the house and sell the proceeds, then there might be nothing left to inherit.
*note new sig