Is Studying at the ETH Worth It? (Living Costs)

[yelynny]

First of all, thank you very much for everyone that contributed to this topic. I was not expecting so much grown in the discussion. The information here is helping me a lot. Thanks!

There is so much to answer and to say that I even don't know where to start. Sorry about the quantity of quotes in this reply, but it helps me answering everything I want.

Hm, lots of people seems to agree with you in this point. ETH seems to be really great in researches and PhD, but not that good in undergraduate courses.

I consider myself more or less an autodidactic in some fields related to logic and natural sciences. I never had difficult in the school and I could learn a lot by myself, like Programming and English. Ok, my English is not that good, but all I know came from online games and movies with subtitles, what resulted in good vocabulary but awful grammar.

I've read some things about the "basis tests" where 50% of the students do not succeed. I don't know really exactly, but I think I can survive there if I try really hard.

I think that I can receive something like 2000 CHF every month from my parents if I get accepted there. With this money there will be almost no need for working, so I can focus only in my studies.

Thank for your answer! It is really nice to hear both sides (until now I was only looking at the pros aspects).

This is also a very relevant information. I knew that a lot of universities in the US had scholarships programs, but I didn't know how popular it was. MIT says here and here that "The percentage of our students receiving financial aid is extraordinarily high – 89% for undergraduates". " The average amount per student in 2008-2009 was $29,891."

They say that the budget for one year (with tuition, accommodation, food, free time, etc) is $52,000. With a financial aid of $30,000 there is just $22,000 left. From that point of view, it doesn't seem so bad anymore.

However, it is also important to notice that Each year, more than 3,000 international students apply, and approximately 100 are admitted.

Interesting information, thanks. While I did my 1 year exchange program in Germany I also noticed that they are more "closed" at the first impression, but after you gain their trust and make friends they become more "loyal". Here is Brazil I would say that it is the opposite. It is really easy to make "friends", but most friendships are just superficial.

However I can't say much, because I am not a "social" guy.

True. Lots of people complain that Switzerland has a wonderful life quality but it is too expensive to live. However they always forget that Switzerland has also one of the biggest GDP per capita in the world. People usually see what they receive in their countries and compare the expenses with the wrong income value.

You pay more but you also receive more.

This is an important point: where do I want to live long-term?

The main reason of me wanting to study in another country is not the university itself, but the country. I really do not like of living in Brazil. The corruption in politics has reached a unbelievable level. We have one of the worst wealth distribution in the whole world (some years ago, 1% richest people received the same as 50% poorest) and that social inequality has created many problems, like violence in the streets.

We also have a terrible public education and we always score REALLY REALLY bad in educations tests. In the last PISA tests Brazil showed up in the 54th position, from 57th countries (science tests). And it is even worse because the politicians don't want to invest in education. They know that a well-educated nation will notice how corrupt they are and will not vote in them again.

So what I am really looking for is life quality. Ok, university is also important, but my priority is to live (and study) in a country where I can go outside in the street without fear and where I can walk with my MP3 Player and use my laptop in public areas, like a park or something like that.

USA is not thaaat great in life quality and their culture is not so special (or different, lets say). I am not sure if I want to live there for my entire life, but I think 4 years won't kill me.

PS: Brazil is a really big country - 206 times bigger than Switzerland. I live almost in the poorest region (Northwest) from Brazil, so what I say is not applicable to the entire territory. There are some better places to live in the South and Southwest region. I am also a little bit pessimist.

But if you want beaches and warm temperate the whole year (28 C), come to Northwest. Staying some weeks here is not that bad. :P

Ah, you may also think that I am running from my country because it is bad, and that I should stay there to help it improve. I have been thinking that a lot, and my conclusion now is that I don't see any perspective of social changes to the future, but that is a subject to another topic.

Thank you again!

[danee]

Well from your priorities I certainly think either Switzerland or Austria will suit you fine.

The crime level in Switzerland is still much lower than the rest of Europe, and by far lower than the US. The lifestyle is very nice in Summer, everyone is outside, at the lake, at the river, students studying outside with their notebooks etc. Winter can be a bit depressive I think, as it's too cold to do much outside, so most people stay at home and aren't very sociable. I will ask 3 of my friends if I can give you their e-mail adresses, they are currently doing their Master degree in Informatik at the ETH Zürich, and I'm sure they can give you a lot more information about specific questions than any of us ever could.

[Stynn]

Drawing from my student experience I can confirm that students are even more sociable in winter, crammed as they are in various type bars

[anandpook]

Let me add a few additional remarks that may help you on your choice. Being a computer science graduate myself (now in research) this may help you.

Independently of the question of where you want to live, there are some questions you have to answer for yourself.

First, what are your career goals? Should the degree help you get a job in a top company and / or provide access to a top research career? If yes, then many good universities (including ETH) have been mentioned above. Also consider the fact that a university being top-ranked does not necessarily mean CS being top-ranked at the same university. Also, they may have good faculty in one specific area. If this is a relevant aspect, I would for example not consider Austria for CS (sorry to the Austrians )

Also, I do not agree entirely with the ETH-bashing done above with respect to teaching quality. As I have written above, you will have similar experience at any top university. The point is, professors there are more research oriented. But students are also better, and hence prepared to work more and independently. The reason you hear more negative points about ETH is very simple: ETH admits essentially every Swiss student into the first year of study. The actual selection is at the end of the first year. This produces a high number of unhappy people. (I know not every criticism comes from the, and there is lot of justified criticism, but I think this does not help giving a fair image.)

This also brings up the last question you have to answer for yourself: How good are you? US universities are really really selective. If you think to be among the top high school graduates from your country, then go for the best US universities. I think you should also be able to find a scolarship coming from Brazil in this case. However, be prepared: AFAIK, it is not untypical for universities such as MIT or Stanford to expect you to have done something more than your standard high school curriculum (summer research-oriented activities, for instance, math or science competitions, ...) in order to have a high probability of being selected at all.

This is my small bit of advice, and I hope it helps.

[leophillalo]

This ranking is from 2008, but may be helpful.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8508917/Wo...ntometrics2008

Personally, I would not spend too much money on the first degree- save it for the Masters. In the US colleges and Universities are a business, the rankings for undergraduate courses can be very different than the graduate courses.

With respect to computers, would be very interested in something in Shanghai; especially when you consider that Google is pulling out of China, probably because of reverse engineering fears.