The other way round, people from Switzerland went shopping in Germany and visiting Germany also at times when the DM was at CHF 1.24 which meant that Germany was fairly expensive in some ways (while agricultural products already then were cheaper in Germany)
In Zürich, you can see people from the Landkreise of Konstanz and Waldshut etc with their cars shopping all the time. And this since the 1950ies. It dropped somewhat when the CHF rose to unprecedented levels a few years ago, but in the meantime, the shoppers have returned. Shops in Zürich after the introduction of the Euro swiflty started to accept payments in ¢ and parkometers also accept ¢ of course at a 1:1 rate
The traffic IS mental in Konstanz on a Saturday and every other licence plate is Swiss, BUT, the additional revenue must be a massive cash injection to local businesses which doesn't do any harm to either business owners or residents. Granted it's a pain in the hole to have your town chockablock but with so many town centres dying a death due to the scourge of out-of-town shopping and the internet, at least Konstanz is still thriving.
Zurich is also hell on earth on a Saturday, especially at this time of the year but I either do my shopping there as soon as the shops open in the morning or on a late night shopping opportunity.
Live without it. Adapt locally. Take an understanding of the local culture and cuisine. Stop thinking selfishly, start thinking globally.
This is not at all unlike what has happened with the UNICEF world heritage sites. While the world now knows that they places of cultural significance exist, they are being bombarded by tourists, changing the everyday life of people that in most cases were fine the way they were.
Personal choice, in travel, like someone I know, who prides herself on telling everyone she has visited each month places like St Petersburg, the Fjords, Bali, London, Ireland, the Algarve, Cinque Terre, and so on. Is such a drag on the environment. I am not saying do not see these places, but isn't it possible to see something within a 3 hour driving range you have never seen before? Or when you go to London, also explore the rest of the island, instead of flying to Switzerland, then leaving for Scotland the next month?
There is endless information out there that mass tourism, wether it be eco tourism, pleasure travel, or shopping related has not all that significant of an improvement to people locally. Often times it will make their lives worse. One could say that people that work there will not complain because they have jobs? Are people less deserving of working in Zurich?
People I know that cannot ever afford to get on a train to save 20 CHF on some Movenpick anything, are staying in Zurich, trying to live and work. The guy who makes enough to afford to drive to another country, makes money in Zurich, then exports that wealth to even poorer people outside of the Zurich area is not helping the average man/woman by buying their goods and services. So that argument is a joke.
You want to make 120k a year in Zurich or near it, then you should spend it here as well, because giving work to people in Konstanz is not doing anything except widening the gap between the middle class and the working class here in Switzerland.
I purchase things in France as well. But, I am already going to there for other reasons, so stopping off somewhere along the way makes practical sense. I am having a motorcycle repaired in Konstanz as well. I am doing that because I was told at the garage here to junk it because the cost to repair it would far outweigh the price of the bike. But the fact is, repairing something used is always better then buying new(almost always).
But I will say this, when I first arrived here, I was so shocked at the cost of everything I too drove all the way to Saint Louis from SZ canton to save money on this and that. But, after going several times, I did realize I really wasn't saving much of anything at all.
I started seeing Swiss people as suddenly more smart then I had before. And I, coming from a cultural of almost total convenience, was spending basically the whole day, even two days, to do what the local guy figured out to do in about an hour. He goes to Coop/Migros/etc he buys his stuff, he leaves. He goes home, to the park, the "poof" wherever, but he spends the rest of his day actually doing something for him/herself.
Did he spend 20 CHF more then he would have, had he spent all afternoon gassing up the car, checking the fluids, hitting the highway, waiting at border control(both ways), getting duty free stamps, driving with people who really can't drive(Americans side by side the French), trying to find a parking spot, getting stopped going into the grocery store from some over zealous French or German security guard that wants him to check his backpack or get it sealed into another plastic bag, tell them to leave their 2 or 4000 CHF dog in the car, stand in the most un-efficient check out lines of all of Europe, come back to that mass traffic jam that is sometimes worse then it is on a working day. All to be able to triumphantly say at the next work party or running into another foreigner, how they didn't get screwed by the system because they bought a 12 pack of toilet paper almost 2 hours away from their house for 1 CHF less.
It's amazing that they don't laugh at us more.
Now I go to Coop, buy my things, walk down to the lake, stretch my legs, and look out over the water thinking to myself, hmm, where would I be the rest of the day normally?
I don't like shopping on the Bahnhofstrasse on a saturday, mostly I go to big
coop at central, thats all. It it is annoying and not fun at all.
Same at the big shopping centers like glatt zentum or shilcity.
I avoid the christmas markets, only crap which is overpriced to make money.
Christmas has become a date to spent money, nothing more.
A lot of people visit the churches only on christmas, but thats another problem.
If I got problems with my bicycles, I go to a mechanic around the corner, will not drive to germany for that
Allright, I suppose out of all the posts I do from day to day, if I cross your space, it must mean I am following you? The fact that we have similar interests on a public forum isn't possible? Don't be a loser today ok? I know you are capable of being more creative then that.
Given the state of organized religion I'm not even sure that's a "problem". But that's a whole different discussion and we shouldn't derail this thread even further...
Zurich is more than the Bahnhofstrasse and Sihlcity. I agree that Christmas has gone way too commercial. But, for the last couple years I know more people, myself included, that are giving less gifts, and the gifts we are giving are self made. You put a lot more effort into it, it's more meaningful, and I rather consume my time being creative, then buying some piece of plastic churned out just to fill up space under a tree.
I don't have the time to make presents myself, the only craft I am capable Is building computers and set them up.
Or making plans for trips to foreign destinations ......
ST DALFOUR
[](http://www.google.ch/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=hJ5pdCyjo8hjgM&tbnid=3LgKg4c01c6FwM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kaffeeshop24.de%2Fproduct%2Fst-dalfour-fruchtaufstrich-kumquat.4404.html&ei=I5-tUvzvFcin0AXL9IHICA&bvm=bv.57967247,d.bGQ&psig=AFQjCNHtY15bQK-bhLRVXnyuhNc5kVxAOg&ust=1387196571562966)
is available in any COOP
SALAMI is either Italian or Hungarian, everything else is fake and usually rather bad, EXCEPT SALSIZ which is excellent. That the Italian Salami in recent years have become expensive is beyond discussion
In regard to TEAS, I have a definite preference for British teas which nowadays are widely available here
And Hero ? Migros does not sell Hero products but Bischofszell products http://www.bina.ch/cms/geschichte/ as that company was purchased by Migros in 1945
Mövenpick ? Interesting is to see that the company, founded by Ueli Prager, co-operates closely with Göbber
http://www.lifestylefood.ch/index.ph...onfituere.html
which of course has to do with the point that Mövenpick is now owned by the Münchner vonFinck family, with the son of Baron von Finck living in Zürich. Dad in München (still alive as far as I know) and Sohnemann in Zürich, so a real German-Swiss company. HQ is in Baar/ZG
Not saying you have to. I am just saying what I do.
It doesn't matter if what they like is true salami or not. They don't like what is here. Doesn't mean they should eat it when there is something else they prefer.
Arguing over if it is true salami or not is irrelevant.
How old are you ? That Christmas is a date to get people spending money already was so in the late 1940ies and early 1950ies, and was why GranDad used to say es weihnachtet sehr
I am 45 and dont't like christmas at all.
Too many expectations and too many disappointments everywhere at christmas time
Yes, but was it like this is in the 1940's?
True this is the USA, but it is the same. It wasn't like this in the 40's as well...
The relevant point is that Salami of every kind in recent years has become heavily OVERPRICED. A problem is that apparently quite many people like salami so much that the sellers can sell their stuff at the present price level.
The other way round, if things like Salami or cheese only are interesting for you if cheap, you better stop buying the stuff alltogether.
I myself stopped a bit with salami, not so much due to the price but as it is too fat
But "Salami" from "north-of-the-Alps-Europe" generally is lousy and in reality expensive as well. WHY ? may be your question ! Because the Salami you got in the 1950ies and 60ies was so fat that it would not be accepted by the clientele, not even in Italy.
So yes indeed, right you are, instead of speaking about "Italian Salami" he rather should check up other options
The city in the U.K. where I used to live had many more visitors per annum than Konstanz, both tourists and shoppers and I never heard one local complain that they shouldn't be there. They brought so much income into the city.
But, the traffic and the parking was a massive headache.
So, instead of moaning like Dawiz, the local council hiked up the price to park in the city, blocked off a lot of the streets to non-locals but provided park and ride and other transport facilities so the shoppers and tourists would still come and spend their Yen and Dollars and Rupees et al but their tourist coaches and cars remained outside the city and the streets did not get as polluted.
So Dawiz, I do agree entirely with your sentiments about the environment but not abut your wish to stop visitors to Konstanz.
I did try and use the Konstanz Park and Ride last time I went for a day out with my family but the pitifully small car-park was full.
The salami here available in Zurich contains way to much fat and is way too expensive(for 100 grams you pay around 6.20 sfr at the coop) for good salami
in constance you pay around 2 euros for 80 grams (Rindersalami).
In most of Europe, the war-related misery lasted until about 1948 (at least) and in Switzerland until mid 1946 . Relatives in Texas often spoke about the "splendid 1940ies" which made Mum most seriously angry. She at a moment, in 1973, fumed at Aunt Hazel "Have a war in your own country "
But it in the 1950ies, not only in Switzerland, but quite heavily also in Baden-Württemberg, Lombardia, Emilia-Romagna, Liguria and Toscana, things swiftly improved.
In case of Italy indeed not everywhere, with unemployment in rural areas are some 50%, so that heaps of people went to places NORTH of the San Gottardo
So, getting back on topic...
@Mawina23, how did your trip to Konstanz go? (Love that place! )
Did you like it? Were there any sales worth mentioning?
Not a liar but you indeed may be right. When looking on the map and continuing a line from Ermatingen to Konstanz and continuing the line, well you may be right. And that the locals in Ermatingen shared her idea is possibly simply wrong. It in fact would also bring some details about her memories into line in a way. So, yes, you may be right.
But the "darkening" in Schaffhausen possibly clearly was a deadly mistake