There are plenty of places to let your dog off a leash that are not the forest, you might just have to go to a lit lake bit more effort to get there and not just rely in going to the forest round the corner from you house.
Laws are not just based on a whim, they are based on consultation and research and take a long time to be passed. I may not agree with all laws that are passed but that doesn’t mean that they have been based on myth, misinformation and bias.
This law is based on real data and wasn’t just passed to annoy you and fellow inconsiderate dog owners, it was passed to protect wildlife from dogs during a vulnerable period for them.
There is no need to be rude to other posters just because they disagree with your ridiculous arguments.
You clearly missed this post earlier in the thread which clearly shows what can happen when dogs are allowed to run free in the forest.
Excuse me, but you wrote an unnecessarily rude thread with name-calling out of the blue aimed at me. You are out of place if you can dish but can't handle push-back.
Laws are indeed passed on whims and bias all the time. This is evident throughout history and even with some of the recent political campaigns in Switzerland (which I have occasionally been arguably xenophobic and racist). Simply saying they knew what they are doing is not a logical or evidence-based defense of the law.
If there are facts and evidence to support their decision, you should be able to show them. I think the decision was unnecessary, inhumane towards dogs, and essentially based on anti-dog bias. I have not seen any evidence lots of deer are getting killed by dogs, and I certainly cannot find any evidence this was having a meaningful impact on the deer population.
In fact, let's be serious, even if a few deer are getting killed by dogs every year, many, many more are being killed by hunters. Are you against hunting? This can also be a cruel and vicious way to die, and is certainly not always instant. In fact, I know a Swiss man who has a dog bred specifically to track injured deer, and sometimes they would have to search for hours to find a wounded, suffering deer.
"Protecting wildlife" sounds nice, but thats not an argument. It's an emotional appeal. Laws should be evidence-based and tradeoffs should be debated. In this case, thousands of dogs (and their owners) are harmed to prevent a negligible impact to wildlife and the environment. I think even the forest leash law during spring is silly, but I follow it. But now this 50M law dramatically limits safe off-leash areas. Thus it perfectly fits the definition of draconian: "excessively harsh and severe".
Incidentally, I saw an idiotic dog owner let his dog run into the fenced area to the right of the Allmend path (coming from Saalsporthalle) which is a highly protected area and FENCED. Not sure how the dog got in but owner was happily looking on as the dog roamed around scaring the crows and god knows what other creatures. I was appaled and wanted to say something then a mix of confrontation fear, I was doing my last training run before a competition etc prevented me from it. Other dog owners also were looking pretty weird at him. It was also a Vizla - if by any cosmic coincidence it was you, that was a stupid thing to do which could take away privilege from all us dog owners who do their best to abide by the rules.
You shouldn‘t let your dogs loose if you have no clue how to handle them and protect wildlife.
If you are concerned about scaring wildlife so much, can I rightly assume
you never go walking in the woods or mountains? After all, human presence frequently scares wildlife.
The new law is overly restrictive. It doesn’t provide any meaningful protection for wildlife. There was no meaningful harm being done to wildlife.
Are you in favor of banning cats from going outside? It’s well documented how many birds cats kill, and how it can harm some bird species.
I think what we are unearthing is a genuine bias against dogs rather than a balanced and logical approach to protecting wildlife.
What I’ve said is that this law is draconian with no meaningful benefit, yet harms dogs and their owners.
What I’ve experience is almost zero understanding or compassion for me or my dog, OR the thousands of other dogs and their owners. I‘m shocked that most responses have been vitriolic, and only a few have shown any compassion for a lousy situation, or even a desire to try to understand.
Should I assume that you don’t care at all that your cat, if you let it outside, probably poops all over the neighbor’s gardens and kills birds and other animals?
In the most recent year with available stats (through March 2021) dogs killed 17 deer in Kt Zürich, 11 deer and 1 fox in the previous year.
I have started no threads about you nor have I been rude.
I don’t believe in hunting for sport as that is just senseless and cruel in my opinion but sometimes hunting is necessary in order to protect other animals and that is entirely different as it is strictly controlled.
You are clearly oblivious as to just how selfish and self centred your posts are coming across as.
There are many other dog owners on this thread who don’t necessarily like the new rules but accept that they are necessary for a few months of the year and are not ranting excessively about it. They accept it and find ways to make it work for them, you should try to do the same.
They rules are not draconian, they are sensible and most people can see that.
Protecting wildlife is important whether you think so or not. It is irresponsible dog owners who make these kind of rules necessary. You sound like one of them.
Here’s an article giving details of all the cantons with dog restrictions in spring and explaining the reasons behind them
I believe you are missing one major point: If they don’t like it here, then they should return to wherever they consider home. And leave the rest of us that feel well here in peace.
“ Suck it up buttercup” is what you wrote to me out of the blue, which was rude and unwarranted. I certainly wouldn’t say that to a stranger, especially one who was clearly struggling with a concern for their pet (even if I disagreed).
And of course you mischaracterized the situation and the facts. You showed not the slightest attempt to understand my point of view.
I’ve often experienced rudeness on this platform. So it’s disappointing but not surprising. I’ve asked honest advice for simple things in the past, and had members send me a rude and insulting DM. I think once it was even an admin or at least frequent poster. Unfortunately it’s a bit of a cesspool here, which is why I rarely post.
That might also carry over on this site.
VizslaMoose, if you weren’t in Switzerland 2005-2010, you might not be aware of the history behind the attitudes that drive much of current dog law. I think it is important for all dog owners to understand what happened back then, and to look at changes to dog law with those days in mind.
The terrible Oberglatt tragedy and the ensuing media and political storm might not be front and center in public discourse today, but those of us who were here at the time certainly saw how fragile public aceptance of our dogs really is.
It’s important to remember that canton Zürich’s BSL and mandatory courses came about due to a public vote. The majority of ZH voters demanded stricter regulation of our dogs’ activities.
The take home message from that vote was clear: We dog owners are in the minority. Being realistic, it is thus encumbent on us to understand the concerns of everyone who shares the spaces we use with our dogs, and to find a way to live in harmony with the wider community.
Dog owners who scoff at the laws and regs in force, who disregard Swiss norms and expectations, put us all - and most importantly our dogs - at risk of another push-back.
As we advocate for our dogs’ welfare we must look at what is possible within the reality of our communities.
Yes, our dogs have the right to an ‘artgerecht’ life. And yes, towards that end the TSchV says that dogs should - where possible, according to their need/training - have off lead exercise daily. (Art 71.1)
BUT
It is up to us to provide that species-correct life, including off lead exercise. There is no duty to facilitate fulfilling our dogs’ needs from public resources. We owners are expected to figure out how to raise and keep our dogs correctly from our own resources.
As my previous post, we are fortunate to have more freedom to exercise our dogs here than one finds in many other places. But if I find that I can’t give my dogs what they need on public lands, it’s up to me to find a private solution.
So, looking for positive solutions to your dog’s need to run free:
- Are you a member of the Vizsla Club?
https://www.vizslaclub.ch
If not perhaps consider joining. I see some activities, such as the Vizslatag and a Mantrailing event, that you and your dog might enjoy. More importantly ,you’ll likely meet owners who could share tips as to where you and your dog can exercise off lead.
Joining a Hundevereine (or Hundeschule) often opens doors.
- A quick google of Hundeweise, Hundepark, or Trainingplatz zum Mieten brings up more hits than I had imagined. There are indeed places you can rent by the hour to exercise your dog as you need to.
(BTW, I know of one in Bad Ragaz, NF Dogshome. One can rent one of their enclosed play areas. I met an owner of greys there one day; her recently retired racers couldn’t go off lead yet, so she drove up there daily from Zürich to give the dogs the good run they needed. )
-
You might ask a local farmer if he or she would be willing to rent out a fallow field. Can’t hurt to ask.
-
As mentioned earlier, dog sports! Over the years mine have been involved in Agility, Triebball, Flyball, Nasenarbeit, Team Training. We only mess around for fun, we are not good enough for a serious club - but we have a ball. A great workout for mind and body. There are so many different sports, maybe there is one that you and your dog would especially enjoy.
Anyway…
Here’s to living in harmony with all who share the spaces we enjoy.
So to say a dog is not harmed if it always has to be leashed is to fundamentally misunderstand dogs, their needs, and what brings them joy. Would a child be harmed if she were never allowed to run? Of course!
Moreover, always leashing dogs, especially when they are young, deprives them of proper socialization. Which can lead to a variety of behavioral problems when they get older, including leash reactivity.
This is the second time with this dog. I was considering taking a stick to the dog!
There IS evidence, and it isn’t as simple as “X number of deer are killed by off-leash dogs”. Having a dog run free causes many problems, and not just deer. ALL wildlife are affected by the presence of dogs: deer, birds, squirrels, rabbits, fox, lynx, just to name a few.
- The presence of dogs causes undue stress on the wildlife, as they must expend energy to get away from the dogs
- Wildlife tend to avoid areas frequented by dogs, thereby limiting their range to find food and rest areas
- Dogs don’t have to “kill” something in order to be a negative. Just stumbling upon a baby “any species” could lead to deadly injuries.
Imagine a wild animal, tired from spending the day avoiding predators, finding food and caring for its nest of young. Its energy levels are already low, but then here comes a dog, playfully catching the scent and giving chase! The energy expended on evasion of the dog is wasted, when it could have been reserved for better nursing of its young, or self-care.
So you see, it isn’t black and white. There are lots of nuanced detriments to letting dogs run free in the forest and fields.
You asked for proof. I provide this link. If you take the time to read through it, you will see that it covers the global issue of how dogs affect wildlife.
https://assets.bouldercounty.gov/wp-…-2006Lenth.pdf
I sincerely hope that you recognize that the world is bigger than we are, and that all of us need to make some sacrifices for the greater good.