The important difference being, however, that if someone suggests that the Swiss don't queue properly, nobody proceeds to imply that she is sexually repressed, has body image issues, or is, somehow, abnormal .
Such judgments seem to be reserved for those who like to preserve their modesty.
Puritanism seems to have many faces, doesn't it?
But more fundamentally, no one is suggesting she has body image issues or repressed or anything (sorry if we gave that impression). We are just saying she has a choice between personal hygiene and her own out of place notions of modesty, and she has to make tough choices.
I said earlier, I come from a country where we washed much more differently; I have made my choice and happy with it; may be others can try that too
Niranjan, you may not have been suggesting that modesty = shame/repression/body image issues, but several other contributors have (e.g. BHBT, malmostoso, Richdog - and that's just the first page.)
If I have grossly misunderstood all of them then my apologies. It's just funny to see people so quick with the old "well, it's just normal here, deal with it" response (if that's all it is) on this thread, and yet the same people don't mind having a good moan about any other Swiss norms that discomfit them. As Richdog would say... interesting .
TIP: use the swimming pool change rooms on the lower floor.
so it's not just some of us auslanders that are ashamed, repressed, prude or whatever else we are
Personally, I would also prefer private showers and cubicles so I'm with MD on that, and that would be high on my list of things a gym should have if I joined. So maybe they should quit whining and look for another gym.... taking a tour this time. This is wholly a voluntary thing, the MD doesn't want to shower in public, but chose a gym that did not cater for this. To me this has nothing to do with it being a 'bodyimage/culture//allowable/good/trendy/state of mind thing, and everything to do with the OP making a bad choice......
Nicky rases a good point. At my local spa where the majority of it's catchment is local, nudity is allowed but not compulsory and the majority elect not to go skyclad. Most women wear bikinis and a lot of the men wear shorts. Only the very long bermuda style shorts are prohibited. Of those who choose to go naked, most are men over the age of say 30. Though a minority of women go topless, the percentage of women revealing everything is almost negligible. Ditto teenagers and young folk, who seem to be the most modest group of all.
These are not people who feel nudity is inappropriate, or who feel uncomfortable or embarrassed about nudity. If they were they wouldn't go and i dare say if nudity were compulsory then more of them might go naked.
Having it all hang loose while getting washed or dressed could be cause for embarrassment, but it's not immodest. I think it's improper to wash with clothes on, but I'm from Sparta. As for not showering after sports, obviously it's not being done right if you ain't muddy and sweaty. Hmm, I wonder if there's a link between obesity and ...oh let's not get too OT.
Claiming modesty is a dodge: it's embarrassment / shame and anything else smells of fear. If someone is creeping you out, then fair enough you'd want to get away and change in private. There's nothing to be ashamed of being naked, unless YOU are ashamed of being naked, but that indicates deeper issues. J.P. Donleavy writes brilliantly about this theme.
I'd hope we'd be more enlightened. However, having seen the reaction a young blond girl with large breasts gets in a sauna, it's fair enough to have different areas for each sex. But not changing in front of others of the same sex? Oh well, there's an option to pay more for facilities with cubicles...
There you go too, it's embarrassment, not modesty. Frankly, the attitude of the poster who won't let their children get changed in front of each other baffles me. But that's just an opinon Perhaps all those bare breasted statues around the country cause all kinds of internal turbulence for some that I'm completely unaware of...
Also if i was to sit in a sauna naked then I would not be able to relax therefore a pointless past time
My dad always tells the story that after I came back from an extended stay with my grandma at around 5/6 years old I would no longer let my dad bath me, he is convinced my grandma said something to me for me to react this way - I find myself feeling sad thinking about this and thinking how my grandma and her Victorian values affected my dad bringing me up which also created a knock on effect that i was never going to be relaxed and comfortable naked
I had thought things would change over the years but my 11 year old niece has refused to get changed in front of me when she comes to stay since she was about 7 (doesn't help as i mentioned earlier that she is now not allowed to shower after sports at school) which only cements the feeling of embarrassment when nude
I don't think i will ever get over my hangups regarding nudity in relevant public places but i would liked to have seen these old fashioned Victorian 'shame' values put to bed by now
1. Nobody forces anybody to do something here. last time I checked, gym memeberships were not mandatory.
2. Yes, gyms are like this here... and school's changing rooms as well. So kids will grow up with it and find nothing weird about it in any way.
3. This has nothing to do with catholic/protestant as the protestant areas in Skandinavia or Northern Germany (and we do not forget Switzerland) are "worse" for prude people.
I hope this comment was one form of British humor I do not understand. Being naked in gyms or bathhouses is nothing modern or liberal... weren't you so fond of Eastern European cultures? How about Turkish Hamman baths?
In the Roman empire, one of the most conservative empires the world has seen it was completely normal to have no dividers in public toilets and use the occasion to have long business discussion while...
And finally, I will add some value for the OP: Most gyms do not have them, but Asia Spa in Sihlcity has besides the open changing area one or two cabins as well as one or two showers with doors... so they do exist, just check before choosing a gym.
You obviously haven't had kids yet!
think of all the girly magazines which have close-ups of physical flaws e.g. cellulite etc. being naked is just a chance to do that live.
You are right "girls" are bitchy and evil while "mature female adults" are not.
If you doubt this distinction between mature and immature, go to the beach in Daytona and then go to New Smyrna Beach which is about 20miles further south. The beach in Daytona is packed with younger folks and anyone who doesn't have a perfect body is gaped at, of course, those with perfect bodies are gawked at as well but the stares have a different tone.
Meanwhile, further south you find folks (men AND women) of all body types wearing the bathing suit of their choice rather than all of the women above a certain age or with a few extra pounds wearing suits only with skirts and such. I've seen rather plump 50+ yr old women there, quite tanned, wearing bikinis without any shame.
When I've been to Bachgraben with my m-i-l it is much the same as it was at the New Smyrna Beach... women in suits they find comfortable, not worrying about what everyone is looking at.
So, it DOES take some getting used to but once you realize that truly, while some may (ok, will) look at you with curiosity, they're much more interested in swimming some laps, getting some sun, taking showers and getting dressed... they really do not care (beyond curiosity) anything else about how you look.
Even after having gotten somewhat "over it" by now, one of the places my m-i-l goes to swim is apparently an all-women's pool (or maybe have designated times as such?) where some of the women swim naked. Oh how I'd love to go swimming in my birthday suit but I'm not THAT far "over it" to give in to the urge. I think part of that is just how well some of my parts float.
Where in Canada did the people in the change room go into a cubicle. I have lived in 3 cities and used tons of gyms and most people just strip down put there clothes on and go on their merry way. I did see a few people pop in and out of the cubicles, but rarley.
At my gym here I see some American ladies wearing thier housecoats when getting ready post workout. To be honest I know exactly which ladies where the -dont look- cover ups, but no clue who else is normally there !
... and this would be part of the reason why plenty of people are uncomfortable changing (let alone stripping to shower!) even in same-sex environments.