Parents: Is social media killing our kids / truth / democracy?

[TinyK]

WhatsApp for chats, TikTok/YouTube Shorts, some games like Fortnite/Brawl Stars / Roblox (for younger kids), Snapchat.

[komsomolez]

I guess the algorithms are more or less the same everywhere. Crack cociane is the role model. Suckers.

[komsomolez]

“For our study, Center for Countering Digital Hate researchers set up new accounts in the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, and Australia at the minimum age TikTok allows, 13 years old. These accounts paused briefly on videos about body image and mental health, and liked them. What we found was deeply disturbing. Within 2.6 minutes, TikTok recommended suicide content. Within 8 minutes, TikTok served content related to eating disorders. Every 39 seconds, TikTok recommended videos about body image and mental health to teens.”

This is just social media algos. The thought of pairing this with AI gives me the shivers.

[Phil_MCR]

@gaburko

1. you’re depriving them from a learning opportunity 2) all their friends have it and it could make them feel left out?

1. Yeah, I guess they will miss out on how to self-harm and other nonsense. Not a big loss, IMO.

2. As my parents and teachers would tell me “if your friends jumped off a cliff would you do it?”

   I make them play outside and send them to scouts etc. to keep them busy. I don’t see it as them missing out. I think those stuck behind a screen are the ones missing out. I get them to play with friends etc. instead.

[komsomolez]

@Castro

I do agree with Dr Haidt (I linked the podcast on the other thread) when he questions the malign intentions of the CCP. Our kids TikTok feeds have idiots eating dogfood for likes or girls twerking, whilst kids in China are fed clips of Chinese astronauts and engineers.

Deliberate. There is a reason that TikTok is banned in China. Scary how vulnerable open societies are to the influence of the dictators.

[TinyK]

@Phil_MCR

I make them play outside and send them to scouts etc. to keep them busy. I don’t see it as them missing out. I think those stuck behind a screen are the ones missing out. I get them to play with friends etc. instead.

My son attends 5 additional activities per week, 4 of them are sport activities and one requires daily homework. He also spends lots of time outside when the weather is good and it’s not dark. But the kids in Switzerland have so little homework (often no at all), so long lunch breaks and so many early lessons (at 7.30), that they still have plenty of time after or between school for digital entertainment.

Even my daughter who is in Gymi, spends lot of time in public transport and has 3 additional activities per week has plenty of free time after school.

[Phil_MCR]

@TinyK

they still have plenty of time after or between school for digital entertainment

There’s an English saying: “The devil makes work for idle hands.” So I keep them busy and out of trouble. Waterproof clothes mean they can play outside even if the weather is bad.

The problem is that digital entertainment is so addictive and consuming that everything else seems boring in comparison. My kids do have some digital entertainment:

• 5 minutes of cartoons per day
• One is allowed to do chess lessons which are on the computer

When I was a kid, we had to travel a lot in the car and got bored and got used to thinking and entertaining ourselves.

I deliberately, let the kids get bored and find ways to entertain themselves. I think they only twice complained about being bored. If they do, I give them housework to do. With that as an alternative, they easily find something else to entertain themselves.

Even when we go on holidays, I don’t take screens for them. They can enjoy the experience and entertain themselves on a 4 hour flight.

I don’t want the kids getting used to filling every moment of free time with a phone, or using a phone as the default option when they start to feel bored.

[komsomolez]

@Phil_MCR

5 minutes of cartoons per day

If I did not know you were such a serious and upright person, I would call you a troll.

[greenmount]

@Tom1234

Same here. It’s nightmare.

Sometimes I try and start discussions at the dinner table with regards to something going on in the world they may find thought-provoking or otherwise interesting.

When the sum total of their news sources is Tik Tok and other dubious sources, it soon becomes a pointless discussion of untruths and conspiracy theories.
Children still seem to think that if they watch something online, it must be true.
At least they are not into Twitter (x) yet.

My kids are very critical about everything, but in a very amusing and frankly quite astute (for their age) way. They watch silly tik toks for amusement but also to criticise whatever is going on there. I am not so sure how can I restrict that. We discussed about a lot of things at home so they are “trained” to have a critical view on social media. But they do tend to use it in excess, if they have too much time on their hands - which rarely happens because they’re at school/hobbies most of the time.

[TinyK]

@Phil_MCR

I don’t want the kids getting used to filling every moment of free time with a phone, or using a phone as the default option when they start to feel bored.

I suspect that you are talking about much younger kids.

[greenmount]

@TinyK

I suspect that you are talking about much younger kids.

Even at younger ages my kids watched a lot of cartoons but I personally never saw any harm in that. It gave me time…when I didn’t stop from whatever I was doing to watch those cartoons with them!

@TinyK

Even my daughter who is in Gymi, spends lot of time in public transport and has 3 additional activities per week has plenty of free time after school.

Which is very often filled with studying in my daughter’s case. She has this “secret society” with her dad that nobody is allowed to unless they share the same views on nerdy stuff. Those two can be such bores… But…I don’t complain!!

[ShirleyNot]

@Phil_MCR

I don’t want the kids getting used to filling every moment of free time with a phone, or using a phone as the default option when they start to feel bored.

I think it’s about a sensible balance. Phones and social media are now baked into society and if kids can’t learn by themselves how to regulate it under a controlled environment, as soon as you take the brakes off and/or they reach the age where you can’t control their every waking moment, you may have a fight back on your hands.

Essentially, their peers will have common ground for discussion, in-jokes and will be tech savvy, which may or may not create a divide with your kids.

My son has had a phone since he was 12 after some olympic standard nagging. He initially went crazy with it because it was a novelty so we put some restrictions in but now, some years later, I’m lucky he’s got it with him. It’s either still stuck to the charger or down the side of the sofa and he’s popped off to school. He watches vids now and again, especially if his mates have been talking about one of them but otherwise it’s just not that big a part of his life.

Gaming on the PC is another matter but he mostly games with his friend-circle online so there’s usually a load of raucous chatter, which I really don’t mind.

[greenmount]

@Phil_MCR : that sounds like a very well laid off plan. How’s that working for you guys so far?
I guess it’s early days…eh?

[gaburko]

@ShirleyNot

Gaming on the PC is another matter but he mostly games with his friend-circle online so there’s usually a load of raucous chatter, which I really don’t mind.

I agree with you on the whole balance thing and going crazy in the beginning when its a novelty. Re gaming, I actually encourage them to game. I grew up gaming hours on end and I am a religious believer that the better games out there actually develop skills apart from the sheer entertainment value.

[ShirleyNot]

@gaburko

I actually encourage them to game. I grew up gaming hours on end and I am a religious believer that the better games out there actually develop skills apart from the sheer entertainment value.

I have ZERO knowledge about gaming but as I understand it, he and his mates like a mix of “strategy” (the more complicated the better) and idiotic shooting games (which seems to have them all laughing like drains for most of the evening).

[greenmount]

@gaburko

I agree with you on the whole balance thing and going crazy in the beginning when its a novelty. Re gaming, I actually encourage them to game. I grew up gaming hours on end and I am a religious believer that the better games out there actually develop skills apart from the sheer entertainment value.

I guess one can develop these skills by doing chess lessons on the computer too (and other things). I take it Phil is more of a classicist and an old school guy, which I kind of admire.
However, he seems to ignore the peers/society influence. As I said…early days.
On a different note.
I know every parent thinks they got it right, which frankly I never understood as every child is unique. One of the things that prevented me from connecting more with some people /parents I used to like otherwise.

[yellowblood]

Encourage your teenage kids to do drugs, they will stay off social media and grow up just like your parents did.

[ShirleyNot]

@yellowblood

grow up just like your parents did

Absolutely loving the idea of my teenager going out on a Friday night for a couple of pints of mild and a bag of chips, but being home before 11 because the pubs stop serving at 10.30.

[greenmount]

@ShirleyNot

Absolutely loving the idea of my teenager going out on a Friday night for a couple of pints of mild and a bag of chips, but being home before 11 because the pubs stop serving at 10.30.

One of the life’s ironies is that the new generations are called zoomers…a clever word spiel.
Generation “Alpha” is a bit different though.

[Buzzer]

This topic is currently our biggest energy drain in our home.

Kids are 15 and 12.

We always travelled a lot so they had tablets for when travelling which we controlled.

As they got older, we got the first one a phone in 6th grade. With a specific contract and keeping an eye out. All went super smoothly, a lot of time is spent on it but not in an obsessive way. With secondary school we added a laptop, supervised by Microsoft family. And that went ok also. Nowadays we have no controls over the machines aside from location - for safety reason.

The second child is a nightmare. Got a tablet at school in 5th grade with absolutely zero controls on it. Started gaming everyday, it was a big fight. We postponed getting a phone until end end of 6th grade and got a gaming computer for present when passed gymi exam. We had all the controls in place (locking at night, max usage of gaming during day, blocked content etc). One year down and it has all been hell. He is sneaky, finds ways to override controls and it’s a constant battle. He steals our devices and changes the settings etc. He watches inappropriate stuff on Insta and is belligerent with writing things like “F*cl the police” etc. We have discussed with hubby that we will seek professional help and now took away all devices after a particular bad incident until further notice.

I have heard discussions about banning phones for under 12 and social media for under 16 - I truly hope they do that for the sake of the new generations.

For people just starting out my recommendations is:

1. make a contract and follow through (check phone/pc etc regularly) and immediately implement a stop at the slightest breach
2. Enforce any kind of parental app you can find, the more controlling the better.
3. Have WiFi shut down at night at home
4. give a phone as late as ever possible
5. first sign of trouble jump on it

Also be prepared that it can be a part time job to teach them and control what they do