Hello,
I am a non-EU currently holding B permit from PhD program in Geneva (Formation avec Activite), and now will only have thesis in front of me. My permit almost runs out, but since I only need to do the defense, my boss told me to extend the permit to the usual student permit. Still B, but I guess it will be only "Formation". My boss told me that I could get a full year if I could demonstrate my ability to support myself financially (which I do).
Now, let's say I have received the new B-student permit for a year and have my defense let's say in July or August.
1. Does that automatically cancel my student B permit even though technically I'm still student for the Fall 2022 semester? I need to request my degree and grades manually in order to get "done" designation from my university, so from what I understood I'm still a student until I requested it.
2. Should I apply for L permit find-a-job permit straightaway after my defense? Or staying under B student permit and looking for a job with it? Can I even looking for a job with student B permit?
3. I have an employer that is agreed to take me, but not yet starting the motion yet due to the need for them to secure a contract with a client first. Which one is giving bigger chances to succeed?
- applying when I still have my current B (Formation avec Securite)
- applying when I'm in B student (Formation)
- applying when I'm in L looking-for-a-job permit
Thanks everybody who kindly replied to this!
1.) When you receive your degree from the university, you are matriculated and the conditions of your permit are completed. This means that your permit is technically no longer valid at that date .... that said, the university does not contact the authorities or anyone to say that your studies are completed, so no one knows that your permit is invalid and it doesn't cause problems ...
2.) Apply for the L permit before your student B permit expires. This is important. You can specify a date at which you will be on your L (that would be around the time your receive your degree). Technically you can't look for jobs on a student B, but in practice you can and you definitely 100% must look for jobs. When you apply for the L permit, you have to show proof that 1: You've been looking for jobs in Switzerland, 2: You have a chance of finding a job in Switzerland. I know it's roundabout and contradictory but it is just that.
3.) You can apply whenever you want. For them, we can't say what would be more successful but if they apply for you and your qualified, on a L permit your employer would not have to show any proof that they can't find a Swiss/EU person to fill the role. They can simply take you up.
Source: I've dealt with this BS before.
Hello.
You're right. Thesis defense is just another check mark in a long list of things to do. You're technically a student until you complete all requirements.
I learned this in the hard way. I did all the stuff except submitting thesis to the library. I asked that letter from the university telling "this guy has successfully completed all requirements" because I needed for the job. One day I got a call reminding I forgot submitting the thesis in PDF version to the library and that I was 1 week late for the yearly graduation deadline. If submitted the thesis immediately I could get the completion assessment letter but title 1 year later...shit happens!
At the time I consulted a lawyer with residence law knowledge from canton NE. Alternative 1 was finding a job before the validity date printed on the residence permit card. While theoretically once you're done with the university the permit is not valid anymore, those few months are a grey area and if you find a job and they apply for a work permit during that time no one cares.
Alternative 2 was to apply for a "I'm looking for a job" permit 1 month before the theoretical end of the student permit. If I remember well, I had to show up 11K on the bank to get this permit. Of course, be actively working for a job because L permits we're not granted all the time and they're quite short. The advice was find a job while you submit and contest any possible denial. From a practical perspective, consider that you're legally here while authorities take their time to reply because it's feasible they reply with a YES a few weeks days the end of job-seeking permit. In other words, the process is the permit. No matter if approved or denied, it's a very short period of time.
Alternative 3, go back home and apply from outside CH.
If you speak French, you may get a quick and cheap consultation with the lawyer association of Geneva (Permanence juridique avocats) 50CHF for 30 min and get better advice https://www.permanence-juridique-geneve.ch/
When does they will take as a date when you received your degree? Is it the date of defense, the date when you submit your final thesis and all the needed documents for that, or the date that are written on the diploma?
Yeah I reckon the university is pretty laid back about it and never notify anybody upon completion. At least that's from some people that I know. I guess it shouldn't cause any problem due to the physical permit still has validity and usually the new employer would only look at the copy of the last permit.
Yes, the plan is to renew my permit with student B and then once I'm close to receiving my degree I will ask for L permit. How do you prove that you've been actively looking for a job? I have shitloads of application sent in LinkedIn for example. The same is about my chance of finding a job here, do I need to make an essay or analysis or something like that?
Ah okay, if that's the case it doesn't really matter because the employer that has said wanting to take me under their wings are already willing to apply for me.
This is definitely something that every PhD students know, but nobody told us! So basically you had the defense and submitted everything including online copy to the department but forgot to give it to library? I just know that there is a statute of limitations on that. They calculated it from the date you had your defense or from the date in your diploma?
Your B permit should be valid until the date your degree is issued (be it the day you receive it or the day it gets sent to you.) Not your defence date.
Regarding proof for work, exactly that. You'll have to write a letter during the application (with proof of funds to support yourself 1.5 or 2k a month for 3-6months) and in that letter you just write saying I've applied for jobs with x, x ,x ,x and I'm awaiting a response with x,x,x,x. I wrote that I planned to apply for jobs with x, but they were waiting for my degree to be issued. You can attach some of your application letters but I think that's overkill. You can also say you have an employer that is interested in hiring you when your done.
Hi, you made me look at the title and the attestation de reĢusitte (certificate of completion)
There are 2 dates: (i) Dates of defense with the committee, (ii) date I submitted the PDF to the library and it's described as degree obtained on/ a obtenu en date du.
I assume the 2nd data is the one that matters. It was an October and the diploma ceremony until next May. Diploma is not anywhere in the docs.