I have an issue with a Post Finance. A few weeks ago I was paying something online and used a PF debit card. I use this card purely for small online purchases and topping up online postage, it’s a joint account. The card never goes out with me.
Unfortunately I managed to get it blocked as I used the wrong PIN twice. I took it to a PF office as you can’t get it unblocked online. As I couldn’t be sure of the PIN the guy dealing with me said it was better if he ordered a new card and PIN. Once he’d done this he told me to keep the blocked one and destroy it when the new one arrived. He said it would take 7 days and I assumed it would need to be signed for when it arrived.
We went away for about 5 days and I checked the postbox on return but there was nothing there. The following lunchtime my OH checked the PF account and was horrified to see that during the early hours of the morning 2k had been taken from the account at 2 ATMs, one out in Baselland and another in the city. These were within 25 mins of each other. He stopped work and went straight to the PF office. They gave him a statement of the account, it confirmed the money had been taken out with the card that was blocked. He was also told it was in the system a new card and PIN had been scheduled for posting out but they couldn’t confirm whether it had actually left the distribution centre.
We reported it to the police who took the PF statement as evidence and said they’d get the CCTV to the ATMs checked out, They also said an officer would go the branch but I would only be contacted if they had a development.
I received an apologetic letter from PF today for what has happened offering me 600 CHF compensation for a 2k theft. It seems they’re not accepting any responsibility. Is this even legal? Apparently they also don’t send cards and PINs out that have to be signed for, we have had to demand this.
OH is suspicious that the blocked card may have been unblocked and cloned in the branch and is furious with the letter. Again, are banks here allowed to not offer full compensation for something that is down to their negligence? This doesn’t seem fair.
I don’t understand how the card worked if it was blocked? Surely blocking means that the card shouldn’t work? Anyway, I don’t see how PF shouldn’t compensate for the full amount.
To be clear, the blocked card was the one which you forgot the PIN? Was it really blocked in the system or it was just blocked at the terminal when you used incorrect PIN 3 times? That’s a difference, a bit, as I think in the latter case you could still use such card for any transactions nor requiring PIN. Nonetheless I can’t see how such card could be used at ATM where you must provide PIN.
If it was the other card… maybe they have sent the card in one letter, than a 3 days later a letter with the PIN, where both letters were captured from your mail box by the crooks
PS. Maybe you have fallen a victim of fake readers. You know the crooks are installing an overlay on ATMs, fake screen, keypad, card slot to make people put the card inside, record enough from it and get your PIN. The information displayed on the screen could have been fake. Then they make a duplicate card to use it in real ATM
I forgot to comment on this, obviously they are! This is a common business tactic to make the customer happy by offering to incur less losses. Many people settle on this. Sadly the straightforward way is to make your legal insurance handle it. If you don’t have one, hiring one-off lawyer is already a risk of making even larger loss and if you try to solve it yourself you really have to hit the nail quoting things in legal language because they’ll obviously try to shut your mouth.
We don’t know the full story so I can’t say it’s worth pushing, but the fact that they already offered a compensation seems the fault was on their side.
I had to read the post a few times to understand what happened. Of course what happened is horrible.
However, since the fraud occurred with the old card, all the info about new card and pin, registered mail or not is not relevant.
Reading the first 4 lines though, I am tempted to think that perhaps the card info went into a fake website.
I have never had to enter my PF debit card PIN when buying something online, let alone have my card “blocked” as a result. The fraudsters were then perhaps able to create a copy of the card and use it to withdraw, whilst you still have the card in your possession. And PF, not suspecting anything amiss, did not cancel the original card but simply ordered a new one, ie, a typical case of “forgotten pin”.
A card’s PIN is only ever used at an ATM or point-of-sale-terminal and should never be divulged to a website, App, over the telephone or to bank personnel.
Yes, something definitely fishy here. Or Phisy, in fact. Never enter your PIN into a website. They’ve cloned the card and they have your PIN. It was not blocked, they just told you it was.
What you should have done is immediately call the number on the back of the card and get the card properly blocked, but you’ve been fooled into thinking that it already was.
Let’s be clear here, there is no fault with PF. The OP has been scammed, pure and simple. Sorry to say, but entering your PIN into a website iis such a no-no, and for most people an obvious one. Live and learn, I’m afraid.
Was one withdrawal just before midnight, and one after midnight?
PF only allows 1000 CHF per day cash withdrawals so that would explain the 2K taken from two separate ATMs. 1000 form the first and 1000 from the second.
Which PF debit card are you talking about, the yellow one or the MasterCard?
Small payments don’t need validation with PF and even large ones have been validated via smart phone for some time now, so where were you entering a PIN?
Sending cards unregistered via the Post has been the done thing for a long time and does not matter as you hold all the security information needed to use the card. Replacement PIN numbers are sent via registered mail to ensure a card and PIN does not end up in an emptied mail box.
The chances of a card being cloned at a branch office or being secretly unlocked are pretty well because banks are well aware of the danger and have cameras and supervisory procedures in place to prevent it.
Are PF accepting responsibility, in which case it would be expected to pay full compensation or just a good will payment?
A lot more info is needed to understand what is going on?
I received items I’d ordered from the UK and needed to pay Swiss customs duty of about 35 francs for the parcel. The details said I could pay online via my Swiss Post account, I have to sign into this via my Swiss ID app. I used a PF debit card which is a Mastercard, I never carry it outside with me as it’s only for occasional use.
When I tried to pay, I was asked for the PIN which wasn’t accepted then it was blocked after the second attempt (I do know I used the wrong PIN). It’s blocked on the card reader.
This happened about a week before I could get to a branch to ask for advice, I had to be away for a few days.
I was asked how it had been blocked and I explained. As I wasn’t entirely sure of the PIN the person dealing with me said he could unblock the card for me via the ATM only if I could give the correct PIN, but if it was wrong the account would be blocked completely.
The advice was it would be better to let him order a new card and PIN, I would get this in 7 days. 7 days was the following Monday, there was nothing in our postbox. The following day my OH discovered 2 withdrawals had been made in the very early hours of the morning at 2 different ATMs. At this point we assumed the new card ordered had either been intercepted or taken from our postbox (they are outside out building).
When he went to the PF office to report this, they told him new cards and PINs are not sent out by them as signed for, they are just posted out in separate envelopes. They also could not confirm a new card had been sent out so he asked for this to be cancelled. They agreed a new card and PIN would be sent out signed for, I received this at the end of last week.
OH asked for a statement of account as the branch advised to report it to the police. It proves the cash was taken with the card that was blocked. The letter I received from PF yesterday confirms this, but goes on to say PF does not provide insurance coverage for this kind of incident and they hope I will be spared from this in future
Yes, it was a Post Finance employee at the branch the account was opened in back in 2015, and the PIN is the 6 digit number. We just think there is something really iffy about this. When it was reported to the police my OH told them I had seen 2 members of PF staff, one was the receptionist and the other was the person who ordered a new card. He was with me when I went to the bank as he was on holiday that day, he sat in the reception area whilst I was being dealt with.
I had my identity stolen from HMRC’s system in the UK back in 2012 and used for a sizeable tax rebate, so I’m hypersensitive to stuff like this. Back then I had to get the police involved and then I paid for 5 years security for all my accounts etc. It was very, very scary to think someone had got hold of my personal details and had committed fraud with them.
TBH, I completely ignore Post Finance internal procedures. But, these days, in any other bank you set a new PIN using the website. Or, you go to the branch and they help you to set a new PIN after an identity check. Here in CH, the new PIN arrives by post in unmarked brief.
What makes me raise an eyebrow is the story about the account getting blocked completely. This is a psychological trick to create stress and force a quick decision…and then exploit this situation.
Of course, there may be an innocent explanation for the whole series of events. Hope the police helps.
I also thought it was strange I wasn’t asked for ID at the branch despite offering it, the person dealing with me said it wasn’t necessary.
Unfortunately you can’t change the PIN online with PF, that was the first thing we looked at after my card was blocked.
I’m not very happy about the tone of the letter I was sent by their fraud investigators either, it seems to say in a passive aggressive fashion it must have been me using the card.
It’s pretty clear (to me at least) that the card was used fraudulently to obtain the maximum possible cash withdrawal over two days and if the OP’s OH hadn’t gone to the bank then this could have possibly continued with a 1000 CHF each day until the account was empty.
The question is at what point was the PIN stolen to use with a cloned or real card?
If the OP knowingly entered a false PIN (they said they had) then why?
Most of these scams have a connection with a claim for charges for a package delivery. The link usually takes the person to a scam website which looks like the real one and at this scam site, card details, PIN no. etc are taken and then used to clone a card.
These sites are very realistic and can also link you to a fake bank site.
To be clear, I only realised I’d used the wrong pin afterwards, at the time I was convinced it was the correct one. When we realised money had been taken, my OH changed the daily ATM withdrawal amount to zero.
My immediate thought was that you were scammed. It is common to target fraudsters in time. Fraudsters may have intercepted transaction details, then tricked you into thinking it was a message from customs and stole your PIN. However I guess the police checked the details with you already, also if you say the yellow card reader clearly says the card is blocked… I have no idea how bad the system is that it was possible to use a blocked card a few days later at ATM.
So you logged in to a Swiss Post Account using a SWISS ID, so not a Post Finance Account!!! And then you were asked for a PIN number from you Debit Card??? Well the Post can’t block you card and they don’t ask for a PIN on card… So it look like you were scammed way before you got to the Post Finance.
