Interestingly enough, I just got a call from our contact person at the Raiffeisen bank that they are sending me a form that I need to sign and send back to them. At least they haven't kicked me out. Yet
I don't know - in my case I am pretty sure that I am on the account as the parent/guardian and as I only have US citizenship, that must be there.
And then the next step would be closing your account probably? But I would bet the bank can always claim it was your responsibility to inform them and that they didn't know.
So far, I've been lucky I guess. We moved here pre-FATCA/FBAR/FUBAR and I opened an account at CS as an American. My wife said she has since told them that I'm now Swiss (not sure how/when this conversation happened). So far I haven't heard a peep from them but maybe they "lost" the note saying I have US status? Or they assume I should tell them if I still have it? I have reported the account.
Dan
Yeh, I haven't heard anything from CS either (just American here). Sooo, maybe they forgot?
Correct. 3x I asked the lady if I had to sign anything and she said that I'm registered as Dutch with them. End of story.
I was confused, but as far as I'm concerned I did my civic duty. Maybe I should write them an email so I have something written on record.
As for the IRS, I'm completely FBAR / Form 8938 compliant.
postfinance is closing not only american accounts! After 5 years in CH I moved back to as they say "Non EU European country" and few days ago received a nice letter
Thank you very much for your cooperation. Nevertheless we unfortunately have to cancel the business relationship with you.
Over the last months, pressure on Swiss financial service providers in their dealings with foreign customers has been rising. PostFinance has therefore decided to introduce stricter terms and conditions for maintaining business relationships with customers residing outside Switzerland.
PostFinance understands itself as a national provider of financial services and concentrates on the Swiss market. Customers living outside Switzerland require a close and evident relationship to Switzerland in order to maintain the business relationship with PostFinance.
From the information you provided, we could not recognize that your current relationship with Switzerland is close enough. We therefore feel compelled for business policy reasons to cancel the business relationship with you and to close the appropriate accounts and services (postal accounts, E-Deposito accounts, credit cards etc.).
The documents regarding the closure of the business relationship with you will be sent by mail (post) to your address. Please return these documents duly signed within the next 60 days with the reply envelope. The exact deadline will be mentioned again in the above mentioned mailing.
Thank you for understanding our decision in this matter.
Sounds like they’re making sure they won’t have to get involved with any of the looming IGA agreements that are being drawn up with various other countries in Europe. Switzerland and the UK already have an agreement in place and I expect others will follow. If they don’t have clients who live outside Switzerland, then they’re not going to have to stump up client details or put expensive equipment in to deal with reporting requirements.
PostFinance for Swiss and Swiss residents only. Other kantonal banks may follow their lead.
Well, country I live in does not have any plans for such agreements. As I've understood they don't mind to have EU clients, especially from neighbouring countries. It looks like they are implementing policy announced by Medea "PostFinance for Swiss and Swiss residents only".
Anyway it is up to the bank (post) to decide if they want to have money of foreign clients (earned in Switzerland btw).
Then you are not in Switzerland - though your profile states otherwise. ... just wait
No bank in this world will deny an account to a client that brings money. But they do deny accounts to those that bring work.
You are preaching to the choir
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business…l?cid=35753816
Even the kids aren’t exempt. Immie, be glad you’re not American.
Hi all,
I am an American living in Switzerland with my French passport.
I have had a Postfinance account since I moved here 2 years ago and recently decided I wanted to open an trading account Postfinance and invest some of my savings.
After filling out all my information online, I got to the final page of the application. The bottom line before the "submit" button read something like, "Please click here to confirm that you are not a holder of an American passport".... Even though I am living in Switzerland as a French citizen, I still didn't want to click it as I do keep my US passport.
Can someone explain this to me ?
Is there another bank of institution I can go through to open up a trading account?
I'd be very grateful for any advice.
Thanks in advance
Well I am proud to be an American, where banks simply don't like me.
And I won't forget the hassle I got, just to buy an orange julies...
Basically no. Only PostFinance, UBS, and Credit Suisse will accept/keep American clients these days and only for salary and/or mortgage accounts. As an American these banks require you to sign a waiver form allowing them to pass on your bank details to the IRS. If you don’t sign the form, your accounts will be closed.
Now, there’s three things you could do. You can either lie, assuming PostFinance only thinks you’re French, and open the account and hope you don’t get caught in future. However, if you file your US tax returns as you should and you don’t mind them passing on your details then I suggest going to your local Post Office and ask them if it’s possible to open a trading account as you’re an American. That will then trigger the letter and forms for you to sign. But honestly, I don’t hold out much hope that they’ll let you. Thirdly, you can renounce your US citizenship and then you’ll only be French and the banks will be very happy and let you open any account you want.
This has all come about due to the stupid and ill-thought out US FATCA law by the way.
FATCA for natural persons and legal entities is due to be fully enforced in January 2014. If banks don't have your nationality as American then you likely haven't been approached. However there are several hard and soft indicia that are 'indicators' of a potential taxable relationship with the US, should be monitored (per FATCA) and can then trigger questions about your nationality. An example would be standing orders to a US account.
Google 'FATCA indicia' for more info.
You can lie (or not tell the truth) to the financial institution - or tell the truth from the get go.
Lie: get caught, possibly get fined, no more account and a hassle next time you try to get another account.
Truth: honesty and sleep well at night. Plus, while you are asleep, the IRS will be checking your account levels
Because, if you sign the form that says you don't have anything to do with the US, that is falsifying a document. We all know where that will get you.
Thank you so much to all who responded.
My question now is this - Since I do declare my income and provide my Swiss bank account details to the IRS, it will be eventually necessary to alert Postfinance that I also hold an american passport. Otherwise the information I give the IRS regarding my bank account will not corroborate with Postfinance as I will be 'French' in their records.
Again many thanks, you've saved many hours of combing through google.
** Meant to put that as a question
Creating capital gains income outside of the US might create a tax accounting and tax liability disaster. I would seek advice before trading on this side of the pond. The potential exists for you to trigger an entire new section of the US tax code (that doesn't impact you at present) along with excise taxes.
What type of investment were you planning to make?
If you tell one, you must tell the other - only fair.
Since you file FBAR, it is a requirement that PostFinance report you in their FATCA. If you don't tell PF about your US citizenship, you are setting PF up for a fall, and they will not be very appreciative
As others have posted here, PostFinance are very happy to offer American citizens the basic accounts (current account, eDeposito) but will not offer other investment products due to the tax complications.
This isn't totally to your disadvantage. Trading accounts in Switzerland are not cheap (comparatively speaking) so you'll probably save by moving your investments abroad in any case.
Quite a few people on here use www.interactivebrokers.co.uk to trade. You can trade on most markets, the fees are extremely low, and they are happy to take on American customers living overseas. By contrast, many of the big American brokers make it difficult or impossible for a US citizen with a foreign address to open an account.
You can choose to hold your funds in any currency you choose, so if you want to have a CHF-based account, that's no problem. You can also choose USD if that's what you prefer -- and of course, you can keep balances in any currency you wish. It's cost-free to fund your account if you transfer the money using SEPA, and end-of-year tax paperwork is very straightforward as they provide all the relevant US tax forms.
Good luck!
That's true... and what's still unclear to me is the Bank's responsibility if they determine you are FATCA relevant even though you claimed otherwise e.g. you are deemed recalcitrant. I believe the bank is supposed to close your account and report recalcitrant accounts and their holdings to the IRS, but I haven't seen this confirmed via any of the big consulting firms.
Luxembourg seems to hold that interpretation true though:
http://www.abbl.lu/de/node/36685
"FATCA also imposes an obligation to close accounts held by "recalcitrant" accountholders. Recalcitrant accountholders are clients that do not respect the additional conditions that the US are intending to impose (compared to the KYC rules applicable under the FATF and 3rd anti- Money laundering directive rules) and do not provide the FFI with specific documentation determining their non US status. FATCA imposes upon FFIs an obligation to report the number of recalcitrant accountholders and their assets."