I don't follow this. W-8BEN appears to apply to non-Americans with US earnings which will be taxed at a rate of 30%. Such earnings are interest, dividends, funds, etc. die USA erheben grundsätzlich auf an sog. „Non resident aliens“ (in den USA nur beschränkt steuerpflichtige Ausländer)
gezahlte US-Wert pa pier erträge eine US-Quellensteuer in Höhe von 30% (z.B. auf US-Zinsen, US-Dividenden, US-Fonds -
W-8BEN is used to declare that a non-American is liberated from the US tax System.
W-8 BEN steht für ein US-amerikanisches Steuerformular, mit dem Personen und Firmen, die außerhalb der USA ansässig sind, dem US-Finanzamt gegenüber bestätigen können, dass sie durch einen ausländischen Wohnsitz von der Steuerpflicht in den USA befreit sind.
Quite true Texaner. The OH is being asked to sign one and the only American connection he has is ME! Just because we have a joint account he gets lumped in too, even though he’s British. There’s nothing in what they’ve sent me that has any definition. When UBS sent their W-9 they included their Declaration of Status as a US or non-US Account Holder. It doesn’t give a definition as such, but at least gives something to work with.
SwissPinoy, we certainly don’t have any US earnings. I’m not quite out of the US tax system yet as I’ve still to make my final FBAR filing and 8854 form, but that will be done early next year as I renounced March 2013.
I’m not going to do anything with the forms until after the New Year as I don’t have to send them back until later in January. I may well give them a call and ask a few questions.
In an article on December 16, 2013, Politico.com made two relevant comments on the US-CH tax deal:
"Tax cheat confessions are a win for Swiss banks, too. The Justice program will allow them to deduct from their penalties — $1 for $1 — any money paid back from American clients who turn themselves in."
"The bank disclosure program won’t force banks to hand over client names right away. At first, it merely requires them to release general account information, including how much money is being shielded from taxation.
But because of a Swiss-U.S. treaty, the U.S. will eventually be able to request the names of account holders and see every account transaction since mid-2008, including where the money is going."
As I understand it, the Swiss-US tax treaty and several other tax treaties are being held up in the US Senate.
DuePonte you also have to ask why the IRS is being allowed to check accounts back to mid-2008 via the US-Swiss treaty when FATCA was only signed into law in March 2010.
Hey guys, this thread has gotten me slightly concerned.
I did my taxes on time this year and sent off everything to IRS and another letter disclosing my postfinance account to the address turbotax told me to send to. However , months later, I have yet to receive any letter confirming any of this.
Is this normal? Do you guys get confirmation letters from IRS? I am sorry if this is a stupid question but this is my first time filing from abroad. How do I prove that I am tax compliant if I have no receipt? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
You’ll be lucky. You’ll only hear from them if you owe them money. Still, if you were compliant before you left the States and have copies of this year’s stuff then hopefully PF won’t throw you a wobbly. If they do ask, then all you can do is send them copies of this year’s filing. If you do get a letter then you can call and explain your situation and ask them if they really want to receive this year’s documents. As DuePonte’s article says, it’s really about them trying to reduce any fines the US/IRS impose on them if they can.
The whole point of a complex self-assessment system with heavy penalties for non-compliance is to keep taxpayers in a state of disquiet, unease. And as tax law gives almost everyone at least a small benefit, to make them not complain that those richer and more influential politically pay much less tax (as a percentage of earnings) in what is supposed to be a system of progressive taxation and voluntary compliance.
The IRS (and other taxation authorities) depend on computer systems and mass data input to enforce the tax laws. It remains to be seen what will happen if there is large-scale disregard for FATCA and all the rest by "accidental Americans" with no income, assets or heirs in the USA, and little likelihood of cooperation on the part of their other government of nationality.
It seems to me that such persons, if they baldly deny having U.S. Person status, may be ignored.
The treaty preserves the requirement of dual criminality. The crime charged is conspiracy to evade taxes (to defraud the US :in the ascertainment, computation, assessment and collection of taxes"). The treaty also preserves the right of specialty which means that the person extradited cannot be prosecuted for anything except the crime extradited for.
One might guess that Weil agreed to extradition based on some commitments from the Justice Department.
8854 and W-8BEN are two completely different documents with two completely different purposes.
8854 (Initial and Annual Expatriation Statement) is simply a final declaration to IRS of one's status as a (now) former citizen/taxpayer. Its validity is predicated upon one's having officially renunciated/relinquished US citizenship.
W-8BEN (Certificate of Foreign Status of Beneficial Owner for United States Tax Withholding) certifies that a specific account is not owned by someone who qualifies as a "US Person" (without defining what a "US Person" is).
Perhaps a Swiss bank would accept an 8854 as a substitute for a W-8BEN, but IRS is hardly likely to treat them as interchangeable.
I've kept a copy of everything I've sent to IRS, including certified mail return receipts. And I recommend doing the same to anyone who will listen.
That’s similar to what I did this year for my FBAR filings. I not only have my registered post receipts I also took copies of both USPS and Swiss Post’s delivery tracking info so I have two different sources of proof of when they were delivered.
Oh, I didn't mean that both forms served the same purpose but rather that they seem to provide evidence of non-US Person status for tax purposes. It just seems strange that Medea Fleecestealer would have to fill out W-8BEN even though there is no US income to be withheld when 8854 should be sufficient.
Your post is incoherent. If you " didn't mean that both forms served the same purpose ," then how can you say it's "strange that Medea Fleecestealer would have to fill out W-8BEN even though there is no US income to be withheld when 8854 should be sufficient"? Your question unequivocally assumes that the two forms are interchangeable, i.e. , they serve the same purpose .
My OH received a W8Ben from his bank. As I am not on any accounts and have no signature authority or power of attorney, he sent it back blank with a registered letter. The letter stated he is a Swiss citizen, not a U.S. person for tax purposes, and that he would appreciate them noting his account as such and not bother him again (all this in German, btw). Haven't heard from the bank since.
I am British & have to supply W8Ben forms to several banks & brokers as I hold US assets. Being a Swiss Citizen will not exclude you, it's a form for non US people.
Good point-and probably relevant for many peole. However my OH holds no U.S. assets either. I can't recall if he mentioned that in his letter or not. So the form really does not apply to him.
Every time I see one of these threads, I am so thankful we have always kept things separate.