Problem Residence permit B student moving Ticino -> Zurich

Visas, Permits, Passports and Naturalization
1
So... I just finished my credits at USI in Lugano and now I need an internship, which in 99% of time happens in Zurich or Geneve (MSc finances). So I proactively moved to Zurich for networking and because well.. I like the city, but now I am having problems with the migration office apparently due to their own shortcomings. Here is the chronological order of events:

29.06: I found a flat in zurich for the following month

First week in Zurich:

Goes to Kreisburo 6 to inform arrival gives - attendant gives up till 08.08 to arrange documents

Deregister lugano (letter dated 28.07 - online requirement was days sooner)

Deregister Ticino with imigration (letter dated 09.08 - they took a long time to send it also - around 22.08)

13.08: Kreisbüro send a reminder letter with the documents required to go to the office and stating 262chf and 14 days deadline.

Around 22.08: Received letter from Ticino imigration deregistering myself.

25.08: I go to the Kreisburo with all the documents and do the registration. Attendants notice that it was not my fault the delay to register myself and charges only 162chf instead of the 262chf.

06.09: Migration office requires 21000chf in the account and reasons to move to Zurich. All provided in the following days.

15.09: Ticino residence permit expires. No longer allowed to travel, when asked about my covid certificate "your card is no longer valid, we need a valid card". So basically: Home staying

20.09: I go to the office to check how long it will take for the residence permit to be issued as. Attendant says "its normal to take more than 2 weeks" but that the documents are all in order. I was in a hurry because I had final interviews and background checking both in Julius Bäer and Credit Suisse, if my documents are not in order other candidates will get the job.

25.09: Credit Suisse HR questions the documents

30.09: Credit Suisse HR calls and informs me that they are going with the other candidate.

12.10: I call the office again to ask again about the residence permit since its more than one month since I sent the papers and I no longer have a valid residence permit. and I am informed by the immigration that "your papers are not in our system". I go to Kreisbüro 6 who apologize about the papers and re-do the process without charge. I do not understand whos mistake it was since on 06.09 migration office did in fact have my papers.

15.10: Migration office sent an email with unprecisions stating that I am not authorized to make the change of canton because I am not matriculated in a Swiss University. I am in fact enrolled at USI and provided the matriculation papers and I do need a compulsory internship to complete my credits, 9 ECTS credits must come from an internship to be precise. Maybe because I did 109 ECTS it was misunderstanded by the imigration office, none of the 109 ECTS are internships, they are all classes.

15.10: Due to the email I went to the office in person, the attendant says "You are authorized to stay in Zurich, but please provide an Italian passport, in the meanwhile continue applying for jobs". Problem is: to get hired for a competitive position a valid residence permit is a differential in the equation when you have hundreds of candidates applying for the same role.

15.10: I called my Italian lawyer who says the process is delayed due to the Italian papers backlog that grew during corona. "Your passport for sure will not be ready in November as previously estimated, but in early 2022".

What part of the process is considered by the migration office a reason not to issue the residence permit from Zurich? I did everything as demanded with all requirements fulfilled following due diligence with the resources presented to me by the authorities. I do not know the reasons the offices took so long to send the replies, maybe a backlog, things are not back to normal after all. But I am not the one who should be punished for the office shortcomings when it comes to making processes in a timely manner.

Taking out all the mistakes made by different offices in my case (snowball) Anyone knows if my process to issue the residence permit in itself has problems? The university told me to "go to the Kreisbüro in the first 2 weeks" and so I did.

2
Hi, I know it does not help but I know other people having troubles right now with officially moving into Kanton Zürich. It may well be that it's them having internal problems.

3
I understand and empathize with you. I had a similar experience in 2010 when I moved from Vaud to Neuchâtel. I did the same stuff as I told you (for an internship I moved, like you) and did not see my Neuchâtel permit for almost a whole year. I used to go to the migration office every week and I got the same response "You will get your permit within 15 days". Finally, when I wanted to go back home for 3 months, I had no permit (due to no fault of mine) and had to apply for a visa to reenter Switzerland. When I came back they had sent me my permit and it was already expired. I ended up paying 105 CHF for a permit I did not use even for a day. So, it happens; the main thing is to go as often as you can and bug them till something changes in your status. Do not give up hope. Bon courage!

4
I might be wrong, but if you had a permit in TI, and you submitted all the docs to renew it in ZH, you still can study, work, whatever the old permit allowed.

That's how it works for everyone, you apply for the permit, start studying or working and some months later the permit is emitted and you bring a copy to HR. I'd be truly surprised if Credit Suisse did something different with their hires.

5
" 15.09: Ticino residence permit expires ". The card expired during the 4 months confusion, 40 days ago.

Yup... It is really frustrating the experience to say the least, specially now during corona that everyone checks your document everywhere and "oh its expired" and you have to explain the situation and cross your fingers the person will allow you in the local.

I really do not want to go back to Ticino, rent something there, just to renew a document paying lots of bills and extra rent.. But that is what the authorities from Zurich advised me to do, its outrageous. Specially considering that I am a student from a 3rd world country living in one of the most expensive countries on earth currently without a job. Having 27 and having to ask (astronomical amounts in the Brazilian currency) to pay for rent and food for my parents because you are out of money while "chasing the dream" of having a normal productive live stuck at home with too much free time.

Really thinking in contacting the law firm from HSG for students to fix the situation because the immigration office is being very UNdiligent when dealing with my papers. Since I do not have money for a swiss lawyer lol..

When I tell people this history the answer is usually on the lines "so much for the swiss reliability, trustworthiness, attachment to order, organisation and planning - their migration office apparently is worst than Brazilian/South Italian in movies".

And when I went there (already twice) I felt in this episode of south park "ohh I dont know what to do in your case, please wait 2 more weeks for reply, in the meanwhile keep applying for jobs" -> Yes yes, apply for jobs just so I can do the interviews and feel the frustration of rejection again and again because I don't have a plastic card with a valid expiration date. Also the lack of empathy for the situation is really impressive, specially considering they were the ones who made the mistakes delaying the process for 4 months. It is funny that they act as if they still had the moral high ground and I was the one wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbHq...nio1111ization

A private company would be so afraid of backlash of public opinion for the case that I probably would receive the plastic card with a basket of wine and food in the next day with an apology card, not that private companies are saints, but public opinion matters. But since its a state institution, who cares about "efficiency, diligence, profits, good image". There is no bonus in the end of the year to go the extra mile for it or just sit in the starting line eating mayo with a spoon, the bonus is to make other people as miserable as you. now that just me being liberal and biased against public servers if a public worker is reading dont take it serious

I would really love to know any reporter just so I could appear on SRF denouncing the case, think swiss people would take it at hearth when they hear:

"took 2 months for them to write a line confirming I left the canton, and then the immigration office of Zurich lost the papers, then created a double process by mistake of either Kreisbüro 6 or themselves, and then they misread my papers before sending a reply to me stating that I am no longer enrolled in a swiss uni, there was literally my matriculation in a PDF in the documents with the title matriculation USI 2021-2022. They took 4 months to NOT read the case material and send a half assed outrageous reply telling me to cross the Gotthard border back into Ticino with a Trump immigration office style".

Friend of mine in the USA when she was studying there had a similar case but with deans office and a tuition fee that was higher than what she was supposed to pay and the university officials did not act with due diligence with the case. Then a local channel interview her in a rainy day in front of the university, reportage was about the level of pressure students are exposed to and depression. Next day some big figures from the university took time to speak with her in person to say "We are sorry and free tuition this semester as an apology!"

SRF/thelocal/ZDF/ARD if you are reading this I am here ready to speak

6
Yes, the card has a date but at long as your have applied for a new permit and it has neither been granted or nor denied, you have the status of the last permit. I'd just joke to restaurant people that if they work for Border Police, why they took a 2nd shitty job at the restaurant(*). You owe zero explanations to people.

Back to the job situation, my permit expired 20 days ago. Since I applied before the deadline, zero worries. Last year it took 4.5 months and I carried the expired card all that time. This happens every year. People that matters (police and border police) scan your expired card with their phones and see in a database or whatever that your permit renewal request is pending. If you have to leave the Schengen zone, do what kimngmakerbull mentioned: ask for a return visa.

If employers are requesting a permit, there's the option to ask the ZH office an attestation that you submitted your renewal application. This attestation should be enough, and if it's not enough.......it's a damned red flag about the employer being an total idiot, run.

* careful, I've been knocked down to the floor more than once for this kind of jokes.

7
All of this could have been avoided if you didn’t deregister from Ticino yourself (nobody forced you to do this) and sleep during the week in Zurich as a weekly commuter.

The moment you deregister the permit becomes invalid (it’s in the foreigners and integration act if you want to look it up).

8
But it was the Kreisbüro 6 itself that said "you must first deregister yourself from Ticino/Lugano to register yourself in Zurich, so when you have the deregistration confirmation from Ticino and Lugano come back"

9
Were they aware that you have a student permit?

Anyway, good luck

10
I've always understood, that the registration and de-registration can be done by the office of the canton you move to. It's certainly the case for Swiss nationals, and I believe for two non-swiss students who moved from Lugano to Geneva to complete their studies.

I do know the authorities in Bellinzona are in a complete mess with a backlog that is now about 3 months behind in issuing permits A task that used to take 2 - 3 weeks at most pre-covid.

Since the person in the Zurich office is very helpful (and apologetic) I'd suggest asking him for an attestation as already suggested. This should allay the fears of a future employer and I'd bring the subject up with an explanation and documents right at the beginning, rather than wait for them to "discover" the permit is not yet issued.

11
yes, matriculation was given to them valid till march 2022

Last time I was there (15th this month) they said they cant give me any kind of visa or reentry. I wanted to visit a friend in Germany thats why I asked them.

What kind of attestation could be given? Is it something standard and valid for employers?

ofc, I have a B residence permit from Ticino :P well... used to

12
Difference in requirements for a student permit and a work permit B

13
Yup, full master in Switzerland is B visa while you are matriculated + 6 months for job search as far as I know, and limited amount of working hours in the beginning. Thats what u mean with student permit?

14

If you want to go out of CH during the time your permit is under process, they usually give a reentry visa to CH. The only condition is that you cannot stay outside CH for more than 1 month with that visa. I have gotten it. They used to give it for free as a student, but now they charge I think 70 CHF.

15
IF I remember right, I tried this when I first entered Switzerland 2 years ago and was making my residence permit in Lugano and it was 65chf. Then I said "I will just wait the residence permit to go to Germany".

But here in Zurich they said it was not possible. My main problem is looking for jobs currently and for that I need permit or AT LEAST the attestation that Axa spoke about when they ask for my papers on the 2nd phase.

16
OK CONCLUSION:

Had to go back to Ticino and register myself there, paying 2 rents in the meanwhile, do all the bureaucracy again, but finally got back my residence permit B back and now I can look for a job... In Zurich... Just so in the next months I can register myself back in Zurich and do all over again the insurance transfer documents migration office etc.. LOVELY!

Expended more than 1 printer worth at the druckerei (50chf) every time they asked for a new document that was not requested at first and "cant be forward by email only fax and roman rider courier - also wait 2 weeks per reply, I hope you have time to just sit around and wait while life passes"

Bureaucracy makes me so happy... I am keeping the dozens letters exchanged during the period as a memento "If you survived this you can go literally anywhere". More than the financial costs was the mental health costs.

International students and non-eu in general... Always double and triple check information, migration offices from different kantons will contradict themselves on information which can lead you to this situation that I faced and just now is concluded. Asking around in the university I am not the first to struggle with it. Even when it comes to "what documents the other has access to" they contradict themselves. I really do not know if digital integration has been presented to them because well... Theres A LOT of redundancy in the documents sent for different authorities that should have 1/1 connectivity in the data bank.

For me is quite surprising, swiss tax payers finance top quality superior education (easy 200k per student) for an immigrant so he/she can repay back as qualified labour but... Well not if it depends on some offices "we are against the productive process here"