Cycle lanes have no effect WRT right of way against oncoming traffic. Oncoming traffic that cross your straight path has to yield, generally speaking and of course exceptions apply.
However you’re entirely wrong with the overtaking on a cycle lane part.
One, you must not force your right, and do what you can to avoid collision. Even if someone acts wrongfully you still need to brake, stop, and do whatever, including staying behind a vehicle you might be able and allowed to overtake if warranted.
Two, and much more the point, what you call “proceeding past a motor vehicle” is in fact overtaking. Whoever does the overtaking, cyclist or driver or rider, can only do that if it’s lawful and safe, that onus is entirely and exclusively on the overtaker. An accident proves ipso facto that it was not safe.
So, on a cyclist overtaking while red: Unless you’re sure you’ll conclude the manoeuver before green (possibly before yellow, the other needs time to take note and adapt to the new situation) you must stay behind the vehicle you’d like to overtake.
You obviously know better than the prosecution. They better consult with you, always.
The problem with your arguing is that it’s entirely solipsistic, whithout the slightest regard of others. By doing so you deny others what you keep demanding from them for yourself: consideration and thoughtfulness.
That’s why I carefully wrote “along” roads".
Cycleways that cross traffic lanes generally have give way indications and/or signs on the cycleway.
Not sure what your point is here. Are you saying that a cyclist on a cycle lane cannot overtake another cyclist on that cycle lane?
Please show me a cycle way sign which indicates that.
Where did I write that it’s wrong to avoid an accident at all costs?
I’m always happy to help and my costs are very reasonable.
You’ve got your head in the sand if you think there is no bias in prosecutions.
There’s enough on this thread and on the road.
You’ve made that point with the vitrol in this post.
I was paraphrasing Swiss road law. No arguing involved.
You need to obey it or perhaps you should hand in your drivers’ licence if the law is problem for you.
Here’s a suggestion: Go back and read the thread again and then report back telling me how many deaths of cyclist who have been forum users or acquaintances of forum users have been injured or killed whilst cycling in Switzerland and how many car drivers have been injured or killed by cyclists when driving in Switzerland.
Now tell me why cyclists shouldn’t cycle defensively and try to avoid death and injury?
What is the “without slightest regard for others” which you are writing about? You’ve never seen me cycle so you have no idea of how considerate I am to others.
How about you?
Do you close-pass cyclists?
Do you use your phone when driving?
Do you drink and drive?
If you don’t like that then use your direct democracy to do something about it but try not to look like a fool when you create your Initiative to ban bicycles from the country.
You start the paragraph with “At junctions”.
I agree though that the cycle lanes are usually ended before junctions (provided the sidewalk is interrupted). Probably to avoid confusion.
You write multiple times that you block others from overtaking, or otherwise force your right (or recommend to). The first rule is to drive on the right.
Feel free to keep talking out of your ass.
No need to see you, actually I’d rather not. What you write here is bad enough as it is.
I said it earlier in the thread, this idea that you can block traffic until you personally deem it OK for other vehicles to pass seems arrogant and a recipe for problems.
Block is not the correct term here. Is a car in front of another car in the flow of traffic blocking them?
In what way am I “blocking” them?
When it is dangerous for them to overtake - like at the pinch point in a couple of threads up - but some of them try anyway.
I indicate my intention with a hand signal and move left at a roundabout if I am going to be taking the third exit.
This stops a car going straight on from overtaking me and cutting across, or hitting me when I am going around the roundabout.
Explain why I shouldn’t do this.
Why do you think it is ok for a car driver to pass at such a point? Why do you feel they cannot wait two seconds?
Why do you feel their journey is more important than the cyclists?
Why does encasing a human in two tonnes of metal, rubber and plastic gives them extra privileges over cyclists.
I’m not sure I’m having this debate with you - you are clearly an inexperienced (perhaps new) driver who has no idea how to drive on the road with more vulnerable road users without your blatant aggression against them, forcing them to get out of your way.
You are quite clearly a danger to other road users and should probably hand your driving licence in (if you actually have one).
I am talking about the part where you said “I moved out slightly from the edge of the road into a more primary position to deter any one behind me from overtaking at this point”
Yes, at points where overtaking would be dangerous - such as, but not exclusively pinch-points and entries to roundabouts.
The problem seems to be that you and your Ursmax have absolutely no idea of a safe minimum distance when overtaking cyclists.
In cases of car drivers driving into cyclists when passing too close and causing injury, Swiss courts have generally agreed that at low speeds, 1m is the minimum distance.
At these places I have described, there is no room to overtake safely, you shouldn’t be doing it anyway so please explain what the problem is?
If you are having a problem understanding then I’d say you are another one who ought to hand in your driving licence as clearly you are a real danger to other road users.
I understand the idea behind it and can see where it may make sense, but as I said, blocking traffic until you feel people can pass seems like a grey area and a recipe for problems.
Maybe you were right to do so in this case - but the fact that he ended up overtaking you anyway suggests that you may have been able to just let him pass instead of deliberately holding him up.
Cyclists must actually always stay on the right-hand edge of the carriageway. At roundabouts, however, this rule was explicitly abolished in 2016 - a change in the law that Pro Velo had campaigned for years before. Since then, Article 41b of the Traffic Regulation Ordinance states: “Cyclists may deviate from the requirement to ride on the right at roundabouts.” The Swiss Council for Accident Prevention (BfU) now also advises cyclists to ride in the centre of the lane at roundabouts. However, many cyclists have not yet internalised this new rule. And it also takes some courage to leave the seemingly safe right-hand side of the road. But you need to know that: Drivers have a duty to moderate their speed before entering the roundabout.
When driving I fully expect cyclists to pull into the middle of the lane going round a roundabout and I always stay well behind. As a cyclist I pull into the middle of the lane of the roundabout if I’m going further than the first or second exit. No need to take up the space otherwise.
As I wrote - some drivers on this forum and off ought to hand in their driving licences as they are both ignorant of the laws and so a danger to other road users.
Having a driving licence is a privilege , not a right.
This sounds reasonable. Although in the case of some dickhead cyclist deciding to merge in to the middle a good 50m before the roundabout and deliberately blocking cars which could’ve safely passed I think there will be problems.
I am guessing it’s more the principle of not allowing you to unnecessarily block traffic rather than shaving a few seconds off his journey.
Even if I had been cycling in the gutter, there would not have been room for him to overtake safely.
The lane is 3m wide. Cars are nearly 2m wide (some are wider). That would leave 1m for the cyclist (around 50cm wide).
Do the maths.
But I do agree - some car drivers feel they have the right to pass cyclists, whatever the danger to the cyclists.
What you need to understand is, ignoring the lack of moral-fibre and self-control of the driver and whatever they are over-compensating for - the Police, the courts, and Swiss law see it differently.
There’s a Driving Instructor in the UK (who also rides a motorbike and a bicycle) who has a Youtube channel where he talks about safe use of the roads.
Some of the comments are quite enlightening - many motorists admit that they didn’t realise what terrible, dangerous and aggressive drivers they were until they saw some of these videos and, more importantly, they have changed their driving “style” because of this.
Bad drivers and bad cyclists get short thrift from him and he described many drivers who send in their own videos of their good driving as “deluded”.
How many drivers on here are deluded into thinking their driving is better than it actually is?
How to say you break the law when it suits you without actually saying that you break the law.
Agreed, there are bad road users all round.
This thread is about vulnerable road users.
Have a look at statistics of drivers injuring and killing cyclists and cyclists killing and injuring car drivers.
Saying that there are bad cyclists is not really relevant in this immediate discussion is it?
This is what Pro-Velo says about over taking. I’m quite confident they have had their lawyers look over it:
What can you do as a cyclist to ensure overtaking safety?
There are various options for protecting yourself from overtaking too closely on the road when cycling. The following instructions are provided on the initiative committee’s website:
Keep a distance of 70 to 100 cm from the right-hand side of the road. A range because you should keep more distance if there is a wall on the right than if you can swerve to the right. This driving style puts you more in the driver’s field of vision and means you can be seen better and sooner. You also have the option of swerving to the right if you are overtaken too closely.
Maintain this lateral distance even in narrow places. This will prevent vehicles following behind you from overtaking. Cyclists have the right to deviate from driving on the right in roundabouts and left-turn lanes. They can ride in the middle of the lane and thereby avoid being overtaken.
It’s exactly as I see it.
What you and UrsMax are actually saying is:
Cyclists should get out the way of motorists and if they don’t they deserve what ever happens to them.
Nice to see you condone breaking the law and endangering other road users because of your impatience and aggressive driving and sense of entitlement to get there before others.
Now I’m going to ask why you think you feel like that?
But seriously, when I drive I try to be patient and courteous to everyone. I’m just suggesting what may contribute to your seemingly endless problems with car drivers.
And when you’re lying in the gutter I doubt those recommendations from Pro-Velo will be much compensation.
