I don't know why you must keep on kicking this argument when you've obviously lost. I don't know where you get these ideas from.
How much space does a bus need to park? Lets say your typical bus needs 12 by 3 metres = 36 square metres. Maybe 250 people use that bus on a typical day, that makes 0.14 of a square meter per person.
Now look at the average car that doesn't need one but two parking lots as it needs to be parked both at home and at work and those parking lots don't serve any other meaningful purpose in between. Maybe you're talking about more than 100 times the area, especially if you consider that a car needs to be able to get into and out of its lot at any time whereas buses are parked bumper to bumper as the buses leave the garage in a determinate order.
And let's not even get started on road space. Mayn French cities have shown what can be done when roads are reclaimed and converted into quality public space. There may be people who think asphalt is beautiful but where it has been reclaimed it is only a minority of petrol heads that want to turn the clock back.
No, if you scroll back and read what I posted you'll see I was talking buses all along.
okay, are still talking about commuting? I don't consider Lugano to Zuirich the typical commuter hop, nor is it the typical family shopping trip.
I think you are the one who is evading the issue by changing topics midway in the conversation.
Try it again any time from about 4.30 to 6 pm (I take that train from Zug daily) and you will see the difference. I am still trying to work out if it would be "de rigeur" to ask to sit on someone's lap as sometimes that's the only option you would get to sit down for the journey...
My advice is to select the someone carefully
Marton
Those are involuntary spasms before clinical death occurs when you flog the "dead" horse
It would have helped the discussion if you had pointed out which particular post was off topic, in which case I would have corrected myself.
See, if someone weighing 120 kilos starts a discussion on what compression bandage to use for his knee problem, and then after some 20 posts we realize that the solution lies in managing the weight, not knee balms, if we then start discussing weight loss rather than knee bandage, would you consider that off topic?
That's how I see this discussion progressing.
Obviously? I didn't realize this was a competition of arguments and there were winners and losers. Could someone please tell me who the judges of the competition are.
Me.
And I pronounce the cyclists the losers.
That'll teach 'em for riding on the pavement and shouting 'Achtung' at me!
I walk. With my feet.
How does that make me fat, wheelie-boy?
I fly, on my bike
here a nice avatar up for grabs
I repeat: How does walking make me fat?
Yeah, we know. You fly so fast you don't even have time to pick up the garbage you drop.
This thread has been separated from this discussion about Uetliberg Tunnel:
Impact of new Zurich autobahn bypass
And I hope I won't have to moderate it again because of a p!ssing match...
Somehow I don't think so.
About as much as 10 cars on average, sadly my attempts to turn my car's garage into a bus garage failed as my garage was dimensionally challenged.
So every new bus (& train & tram although these do not seem to fall within your definition of public transport) will require additional (new) parking space. Maybe you can persuade your 250 passengers to take their 0.14 of a square meter per person home with them to solve the parking space problem?
Marton
This one is yours. Any human powered locomotion is at par, and personally I would place walking higher than rollers and wheelies.
Today I saw a counter at our cafeteria where they were distributing handouts of the "Bike to work". Anyone from ETH/Univ Zurich can form teams of 4 and bike/walk/roll-skate to office atleast 50% of the days from 1 Jun-30 Jun and win lots of prizes. I am not particularly interested in signing up, because I anyway commute daily by bike or walk, but if there's anyone who's looking for a member I am avlbl. Basic idea is to promote a healthy form of commute.
Participating partner: ETH.
A campaign by: Pro velo
Sponsors: Migros, CSS, Swiss Post
Sign up by: 25 May 2009
More details at www.umwelt.ethz.ch www.sidi.uzh.ch www.biketowork.ch
Salsa when did you grow a beard, and I though your car was black .
I'm also willing to bet most of the beardy, tree hugging, Bill Oddie brigade are able to be so sanctimoniuos about people who drive because they have the disposable income to be able to set up a centre of life around easy access public transport. They do little more than work (in one cosy office) so no need to multi stop on a regular basis, and eat out a lot, so rarely carry more than a pocket full of groceries, are single with no kids so have zero experience of trying to juggle bags, push chairs and an ankle biter/s onto public transport..... and are myopic as they are unable to see any other arguement than theirs. The dull, dull, dull one dimesnsional arguement about planet killing cars continues to completely and absolutely ignore life outside their little sanitised, eco-friendly bubble, and as such will always fail. They'd time would be better spent grabbing some hemp (a lovely natural product) some rizlas and a lighter, putting on some mellow tunes (on the planet friendly wind up radio) and chilling. That would give real people chance to steal there high-horse, and make them see that there will never be a perfect solution just some sensible compromises.
Now before they start flaming, I'm all for better public transport and use it when it's practical... when it's not.... out comes the car.
More flogging of dead horses?
So you are suggesting the garage or parking lot where you keep your car was placed there by God, whereas bus garages have to be made by humans?
Isn't it part of the definition of public transport that I don't have to take the infrastructure home? Does it matter where the bus is kept. It is the total global footprint that matters, not who owns the land.
This is like saying that people who prefer to buy their meat and vegetables in the supermarket should nevertheless set aside land on their own property for growing and raising them. Isn't that totally missing the point of the division of labour and of the ousourcing of services that others can perform more efficiently than you.