It used to be that young people move and old people stay put. Things are changing a bit. Anecdotally, young people can have as much trouble making new friends etc etc. For us oldies things have got much better. Clubs, activities, talking to neighbours. I actually enjoy living in a block of flats with crying babies, sulking teenagers and hassled workies. The thought of a retirement community? - tomorrow not today.
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Havenāt you heard that our left bank was renamed to Platinum coast recently? Itās even written in Wikipedia.
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I hadnāt heard.
But then, I live on the Schwyzer end. Here we just call it the āZentrum fĆ¼r ZĆ¼ri SteuerflĆ¼chtlingeā 
doG forbid.
Even in Switzerland thatās a hellishly depressing thought.
Current plan is to āGolden Girlā it with a group of friends when the time comes. Knock wood thatās still a long way off, though.
Thanks, I think Iām understanding the benefits.
The big question is what to do when people canāt afford to stay where they like to live. Should developers be told that they canāt improve apartments even if that leads to higher rent? Who should pay for this? Is this a social benefit? Who benefits, everyone, citizens, people whose Heimat is in the municipality?
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We are heavily prejudiced by personal experience. My parents desperately wanted to stay in their homes until the end. I vowed not to make the same mistake. Geographically there are so many factors. It is a privilege to be among the minority of humans who have a lot of freedom of choice.
In Switzerland most can afford to stay where they presently live unless they are thrown out by developers.
Back to the initiative. Are there any cogent arguments against other than appeals to laissez faire idealogy?
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I can only think that reviewing all rental contracts to ensure landlords respect the existing law has a price. New jobs will be created to make this happen, and weāll have to pay for it. So, a question arises, what is more expensive? Paying extra rent because abusive landlord, or paying more taxes to support the new bureaucrats?
Now I realize that thereās a larger implication. If someone is not able to contest abusive rent, who else is screwing this person? The local butcher, the employer, car mechanic, friends, family, who else? If people is unable to defend themselves in the current legal environment, is it a failure of the legal setting or some people need guardianship because incapacitated adults are unable to safely manage their own affairs?
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I think the principle is O K, but the priroposed t sucks. Why not just require landlords to maintain a (privacy protected) database that shows the rental amounts agreed with tenants. And to provide consumers with tools to calculate their maximum permitted rent?
Existing laws should cover the rest.
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This is what bothers me. Direct democracy has a down side. You are stuck with the wording of a particular initiative.
Part of the problem is governance. Crans-Montana demonstrates that tragically. The present laws are not enforced well. Will that improve if the initiative is accepted?
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Not necessarily - there may be in time an official federal counter-proposal - the positive aspect of this Direct Democracy is it forces a discussion on critical issues that otherwise might be ignored.
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And it is the only way to get anti-nicotine plans implemented.
Gentrification seems to be a new buzz word of the left - it has very little downsides that get blown out of proportionā¦ Iād rather live in a gentrified neigbourhood, just saying 
.
This is a bit dramatic, SBB works pretty well for that. And especially for service jobs, we should incentivize home office, so that commercial real estate can make room for new residential RE.
ungenuine commentā¦ the deposit is there to cover damages, and maybe the rent of the current tenant - good luck if he isnāt paying for like 6 months and trashes the paceā¦ and liability insurance is not mandatory in Switzerland. The 3% gross rent yield is already very optimistic, but net itās much less - and the property may or may not appreciate, thereās no guarantee for that.
on a 1M property youāll have a hard time getting 33K in rent in most attractive (appreciating) places in Switzerland.
Missed this post first time round. Had not heard of DRD4-7R. Fascinating. Unlikely to be the end of the story. Always think that to talk of a minority possessing a āmutantā gene is misleading and there will be other genes involved in these traits - which are themselves complicated- Novelty seeking - Wikipedia
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**Conveniently forgets that youāve potentially put 100k-200k of cash for that property.
Also, wanting guarantees on appreciation of an investment? Itās capital at risk, thatās lifeā¦
Also liability insurance is not mandatory, but itās also not mandatory to accept a tenant without it.
And again, forgetting that debt enforcement in Switzerland is quite effective. The risk youāre talking about is for someone strategically planning to screw the landlord over, which if they do, their life is potentially over hereā¦ And statistically I would wager it makes an insignificant percentage of the cases.
There is no universe in which landlords should be pittied in Switzerland. The system is quite well balanced, and the only reason yields are so low, is because THE VALUES ARE SKY HIGH. That does not make rent cheap. It just makes a hell where very few can buy, a somehow worse hell, were people increasingly canāt even afford RENTā¦
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Getting blood out of a stone is hard. Debt collection only works if the ability to pay is there. I donāt think the plan to defraud is there, sometimes life happens and thatās enough to break a budget stretched to the limit.
Insignificant percentage on the cases only matters when you look at the average. If you have 5 rental units and 1 of them gets stuck on an eviction process (up to 1 year), itās quite probable that the numbers are in the red during that time. Institutional investors can spread the risk over hundreds of rental units, smaller owners canāt.
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This.
The system here does not support gentrification. In 1980 we lived on the Wimbledon/Tooting border. Gentrification was happening.
In Switzerland it is generally not so relevant. Only a couple of cities have areas that are really undesirable to live in. Here it is old apartment blocks, not private homes or flats that make a better investment opportunity and then mainly to institutional investors who are interested in fairly certain, relatively low rates of return. It is the recent rent increases that have lead to the current craze for renovation in order to maximise rental income.
This is just a false information, you have no legal grounds as a landlord to demand liability insurance - sure you can ask for proof, which they can fake. I didnāt have liability insurance until very recently - still was able to rent.
You put in 200K at a minimum or at least provided said securities.
A more realistic rent for such a property would probably be about 2200-2600, tops CHF - including Nebenkosten.
Itās up to you to decide if itās a good use of time to force debt enforcement on someone - nevertheless you need to make your nortgage paymentsā¦
Sure, but such a case could mean you will end up in debt collection yourself if it happens in a moment where you canāt cover the mortgageā¦ thereās no free lunch and thatās the risk of the business, but again, the net yield after cost of real estate is not that high in most spots in Switzerland.
Sure, the paper value of your RE is very high, but that doesnāt have to mean much. If you canāt get it to generate enough rent yield, itās just expensive concrete/land and you may not be able to liequidate at a fair market value if you need the money urgently - thatās a problem of real estate everywhere though.
If you want the RE profit, you need to buy and build entire neigbourhoods. thatās where the money is at, building identical 8 blocks with a low cost and renting for āOrtsĆ¼bliche Mieteā - buying a single appartment that may or may not appreciate and has a tiny fraction of land isnāt the way to get rich here at least. Such large projects can then yield 5-7%, but weāre talking about maybe 20M total investment, so out of my price rangeā¦
Real estate in Switzerland is a rigged game anyway, mainly due to the PKs
if I wasnāt able to build my own 100% financing, Iād never have bought it in the 1st place.
That may well be but itās perfectly legal for a landlord to decline a potential tenant who doesnāt have valid liability insurance.
Some landlords donāt request it but there are many who do.
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I had a Swiss GF who took the piss over many years & had 200k of open debts, she chose not to work, never paid her health insurance & seldom her rent. She was always taking her landlord to court for various reasons, the landlord eventually refurbished the entire building & her rent stayed the same which occasionally she paid into court, to screw up his attempts to evict her. If a Tennant wins a case against the landlord, they get protection of eviction, itās a game that few know how to play properly.
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What is the point of this story? I know someone who got screwed by their landlord, only I wasnāt sleeping with them so maybe it is less or more relevant.
This thread is about an initiative.
I was responding to ādebt enforcement in Switzerland is quite effectiveā