To be fair “kisiy35124” did say we are all entitled to free speech; Its more a formal, social contract issue to be a gobby expat. And thats what I disagree with.
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No one has to be silent even from the day one IMO, but voting rights are different, if you know a country is strict on this, then make a rational choice whether to go there or not IMO.
But it seems like you’re talking only about the free speech aspect of it.
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KS effectively says that this is the wild west with the JW comparison. You are free to call this respectful, I most vehemently disagree and express that in my post. The same level of disrespect like KW’s is likely to have triggered other people’s “… then leave” in response to their bullshit.
But the cause for these responses gets left out or is misrepresented - certainly not always but the reactions on here by regular posters, most who have probably been here for a decade or more, clearly demonstrate that this is the norm. And so the complainer, as usual, gets to play the innocent victim because we don’t hear the other side.
And of course the same foreigners then complain that they can’t make friends with the locals.
So, again, KiwiSteve: Your feelings are your problem and yours alone. The last thing you get to demand is that others adapt to your whims or otherwise deal with them for you. It’s a packet deal: Accept it like it is or leave. Seriously.
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Smokers have adapted to my whims !
If the Swiss don’t like it, they should leave.
I’ve met plenty of Swiss expats-abroad bitching about the country they are currently living in - and that’s fine by me.
It works both ways, sunshine.
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Back to the topic, journalist at the TA addressing the right questions. What I assumed, psychiatrists don’t say anything in spite of patients fantasizing about shooting an entire village.
Why did the man have a gun despite his mental health problems?
Whether the man was in treatment for his mental health problems is unclear. However, in Switzerland, people who are in psychiatric treatment can also acquire a gun. Psychological evidence is not required by the cantonal weapons offices. Also, treating psychiatrists do not automatically report to the gun offices if their patients are suicidal or express fantasies of violence.
Scarce mass shootings, but not the first time. Also, the risk is living with a man with a gun. Phew! I did not marry man with a gun 
How common are such attacks with firearms?
The proponents of a liberal gun law like to point to the small number of firearms offenses in Switzerland. In fact, there are relatively few incidents in Switzerland compared to other countries. However, the Aarau rampage is not an isolated case.
The best-known example of a seemingly indiscriminate attack on people with a firearm is Zug’s assassination. Friedrich Leibacher entered on 27. September 2001 with three weapons the Zug cantonal parliament and killed 14 people. Although he was diagnosed with a serious personality disorder in 1996, he legally owned the guns. It is much more common for people – especially men – to take their own life with a firearm or people from their next environment.
And, more laws? The surprise here is the police association calling for a national gun register (not only cantonal). Surprise because people working at the police are far from being woke, green, socialist or insolent foreigners.
Are there any political demands for tightening?
Yeah. Yeah. At Radio SRF. In the course of yesterday’s media conference, representatives of the SP and Greens have already demanded that the gun law be tightened. The debate is, for example, whether semi-automatic weapons, which were purchased before 2019, still need a permit afterwards. “There is a risk group. The harder it is for these people to get a gun, the smaller the probability of action," Councillor Daniel Jositsch told SRF. Bourgeois people like the centre-national councillor Reto Nause, against it, tightening would only bring bureaucracy and do little to use it against individual cases.
The question of whether a national gun register is needed should also arise. The last left-green attempt failed in March 2024 due to the resistance of the three bourgeois parties SVP, FDP and Mitte. The Swiss Police Commissioners’ Association also spoke out in favour of a national register at the time. Among other things, he hopes that a national register will clarify more quickly committed acts of violence with firearms.
All weapons permits should have a maximum five year validity. If not renewed then the weapons should be confiscated. After a certain age, just like driver’s licenses, they should require a sign-off from a Dr.
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First came here over forty years ago. Have a Swiss passport. I do accept it, but find that in particular many expats have a very limited understanding of Swiss culture. It is much broader than the stereotype. The recent political discussions and votes show that whilst concerns such as recent immigration, health and welfare issues are the same as in many countries, it is still possible to have intelligent discussions about the issues. It helps if one does not live in a bubble.
Integration means taking part, not leaving.
That’s quite an interesting take, first and foremost because you seem to be under the illusion that you’re somewhere other than Switzerland, maybe the US where it’s often used in political debate.
Ironically the direct logical consequence of this position is that the amount of taxes determines the weight your vote has, and inversely that whoever pays taxes in a given jurisdiction has the right to vote, natural and juridical persons alike.
This leads to monstrosities like in Delaware, where many areas allow juridical persons to vote provided they own property in said area. And everybody, natural and juridical persons alike, can vote in multiple of those areas as long as they own property there - the richer you are the more votes you have (but always only one vote per area).
Obviously that’s a hard no here, the right to vote is uniquely tied to citizenship.
You most probably qualify yet chose not to naturalise. That’s fine, but like actions, inactions have consequences and are yours alone to bear.
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Do you think your smear above is conducive to an intelligent discourse?
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Please stick to the argument. What is it in what I have written that you wish to have a discourse about? The upcoming vote on neutrality is very important for the future here. Gun control issues are very important. It is a bit depressing to see this split on a left/right basis when safety should be a common concern. Having a gun at home does not increase your security in most modern societies. The statistics do not lie. This was the point of the John Wayne comment.
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Reasonable, but how to make it compatible with “small government” Switzerland? Also, what to ask during renewal? Are you crazy? How to measure ability? Probably a costly process but not many results.
Maybe local shooting clubs could help a bit. Anyway, the only place to shot is a shooting range. So, it being part of a shooting club could be a requisite for owning a private gun. Then, the club evaluates ability, literal gatekeepers.
A few injustices may happen because individuals would be subject to the whim of a few, but these injustices would be less dramatic than the abuse of guns.
I’ve explained it above, there’s zero reason to repeat it just for precious you.
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Can you please just stick to the topic and give all the personal jibes a rest.
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Journalists talked to the neighbour of the killer. The man lived alone and was visited only by his mother that took the laundry home to wash it. He was often away at night and spent daytime at home behind the closed curtains. Nobody knows whether he had a job and what job.
I don’t know why everybody is discussing weapons while we had much more cases recently when psychos used other means to kill or injure someone. The man who set himself on fire in the bus didn’t have weapon but he killed 4 more people (not counting himself) than the shooter from Jura. The man from Winterthur came to the police to inform that he was going to commit crime only to be released from the clinic several days later. He stabbed 3 persons the next day. Luckily nobody died.
A psycho with a knife is not less dangerous than with a fire weapon. A woman with a “documented mental health history” armed with 2 knives killed a woman and injured a man in Times Square a few days ago.
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Not really sure how to protect against cases like this in a free state where everyone is free to choose his life style, apart from the obvious cases where a person gives an advance notice to the police.
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If our assumptions are correct (that he was a depressed loner), then cases like this will hopefully raise awareness of loneliness, clinical depression and the need for society to take greater responsibility for looking out for one another.
I’m sure the Palantirs of the world would suggest more surveillance, snooping through private messages and predictive AI modelling. However sometimes just calling someone and asking how they’re doing is enough. I do this routinely for ex colleagues who are out of work, dealing with health issues, family tragedy etc.. and I’m sure they’d do the same for me.
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No, a libertarian is basically a radical liberal - so someone who sees even the smallest state intervention as a drastic infringement on their freedom - Swiss society generally doesn’t do that, outside of very few people.
I personally do not agree with this way of discussion. It’s a very black and white view on the world. Switzerland isn’t the paradise on earth either (even though it is very close) - and while I vehemently oppose Kiwi’s opinion, I tried explaining that bearing arms is a fundamental Swiss value/right of our free and high trusting society. It’s imho on par with direct democracy and it even predates that right.
Telling someone to leave is always a “Totschlagargument” I’d be happy if we got people to leave who objectively should leave, not people who have a different oppinion in a very niche issue.
You may think that - owning weapons still is Swiss tradition for close to a millennia now, ridiculing a countries roots and trying to impose some ivory tower political idealism on it won’t make you successful and happy, but you do you.
I don’t see the reason the US people should call to arms - so far at least.
As I said previously: We live in a high trust society. I used to carry my weapon openly in the bus - no one cared. If we can’t do this anymore, maybe it’s time to question the decay of our high trust society, instead of questioning our freedoms. I don’t even own a gun anymore, but this mindset rightfully earns very strong opposition in Switzerland - look at all other countries around us, you can’t do jackshit without requiering 20 forms, because once some random dude infringed on something. I don’t want Switzerland to be run this way - and many other Swiss don’t want either.
You don’t seem to comprehend or understand that bearing weapons is a fundamental principle dating back even before the new confederation was founded. The miniscule risk/death toll that comes from owning weapons, even though we have roughly 45 weapons per 100 people is not worth sacrificing for most people.
We already did a lot to infringe on this right to comply with EU ivory tower nonsense that all wouldn’t even be necessary if they didn’t damage their demographic fabric with 2nd and 3rd worlders.
Yes and the approach of a high trust society isn’t to regulate you into oblivion, but to raise awareness and appear to the good faith it is build uppon. Do you guys really want Switzerland to become a shit-hole country like Germany or France?
Absolutely not and it won’t happen on a federal level - there are certain municipalities that allow it. Exercising democratic rights is the privilege of citizens and with enough effort and integration history one can become said citizen. Case closed.
Yes, but let’s not pretend here… you didn’t come because Swiss German was your favorite language, you came because of the $$$ and that’s all fine by me. You pay taxes since you reside here, tax contributions have nothing to do with the right to vote. We aren’t the USA - no bs “no taxation without representation”. You are Swiss, you vote, you are not, you don’t.
I don’t tell you to go home if you don’t like it here, you may express yourself freely, like any other individual, but in the end, I’d question if I’d want to live in a country (as an immigrant) where I have major gripes and just stay for the money, long term.
That makes you very Swiss - we complain all the time
Yeah, but it’s an online Forum and he’s likely not Swiss, what are you gonna do - it’s a shame he can’t comprehend the tradition bearing arms has, but so be it. I agree on the voting rights though, never ever, not in 1M years.
Bingo - I also wouldn’t want to be the friend of such a person - the whole demeanor is just very anglo-saxon-ish, not allemanic/helvetic at all.
Then are you just ignorant or how come you seem to be oblivious and condescending in the way you talk about Swiss traditions? Are you a young socialist (or rahter old one lol) or something?
You can’t… If I just randomly want to stab/shoot people without any warning signs, nothing can be done. I think there should be a ban on political action right after such events, it’s so retarded it makes my head hurt… “oh no single incident in like 10y, we need stricter laws”…
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I mentioned that before. I guess it’s comforting to forget about Fribourg and blame the Swiss defense strategy of an armed militia with the options of guns at home.
About a third of homicides in CH are with firearms, the rest is basically stabbings. As Castro mentioned, the issue seems to be social isolation, mental health, etc. The shooter used a gun because he had guns, but could have used gasoline instead.
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It is not an either or issue. Better prevention and better treatment for mental health issues are required as is better control of offensive weapons. Both knife and rifle/hand gun carrying are regulated at the moment, just not well enough. Unfortunately private industry is not good at providing answers, there is little direct profit to be made in making the streets safer.
Switzerland’s defence strategy is related to the attitude to guns, but in the end it is a separate issue.