South Africa

With 90% of the votes counted the ANC have most votes but not enough to form a government so they will have to seek a coalition.

First time in 30 years they have failed to get the majority

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Given the steady rise in corruption and incompetence (electricity) I’m surprised they got 40%

Mind you the alternatives were not so great.

Havent yet seen turnout numbers, suspect we will see an increase in abstaintions.

I guess if you lived in a township (and basically in poverty) your whole life, it didn’t make a lot of difference?

I believe there was a thread on South Africa back on EF.

You have to ask yourself: is it some sort of white-man-conspiracy that all these countries sink into corruption and misery or how does that happen?

All countries are corrupt, some disguise it better than others.

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That is true. But few sink to the level of Zimbabwe and South Africa.

I guess, for South Africa, the drop height (as we say in German) was just higher than the rest of Africa.


The voter turnout in this election is the lowest in South Africa’s history, a think-tank says.

It stands at nearly 59% with 99% of votes tallied so far.

Still close to 60% is laudable …

That’s partly because ex-president Jacob Zuma founded his own party, which received a rather unexpected 14.5% of the vote. Had Zuma not founded his own party, his supporters probably would have continued to mostly support ANC.


One thing I can never understand about corrupt, aged leaders is why choose that legacy rather than a more Kennedy-esque one where you’ll be remembered fondly and airports and bridges will be named in your honour?

Isn’t that better for your family and offspring than a few hundred million left for them to squander once you’re dead.


Some members of the clan are undoubtedly corrupt but nothing I could find on JFK. From all accounts he was pretty scrupulous about financial corruption e.g. didn’t take a salary while president, refused all gifts from foreign leaders and made sure the family paid for all their own groceries. He was obviously a philanderer and unpleasant in many areas, but in terms of financial corruption he had enough class to keep clear of it.

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You can have both - the money and the bridges:

Kim Jong Un Friendship Bridge
Kim Jong Un Airport
Kim Jong Un Shopping Mall


Well, there’s always the allegations of mob-involvement.

Kennedy had the “advantage” of getting killed very early and subsequently, his two core projects (space exploration / moon landing and civil rights) being followed through partly out of respect.

Had he lived to a 2nd term, congress would simply have starved the Apollo project of funding and we may never have landed anybody on the moon.

Not sure if he’d actually managed to withdraw from Vietnam.

As for those aged leaders: they don’t live for the afterlife. They are in full YOLO mode. No consideration for the far away future.

And in Africa’s tribal, nepotistic view on things, their status actually improves (among his tribe/family) the more jobs and money one manages to “secure” for the tribe/village/family. So they reduce the changes of getting offed by some general or cousin twice removed.

I think you need to broaden your history.

Ghandi died fairly old at 78 even though he was assassinated so may have reached a grand old age.
Everything he did was the for the future of India.
As for the afterlife - Hindus, of which Ghandi was one, believe very much in the afterlife.

India is not Africa. And especially Ghandi isn’t comparable to the typical African autocrat.

You do remember the story of the confiscated supercars?

Sorry, you are absolutely right.

I didn’t realise this was the Africa thread - it could have been the US election thread as the last thing I read on was concerning Kennedy.

I think this is partly why Zuma’s new party did so well in the elections. The Zulus are fiercely loyal to Zuma as one of their own, and they make up about 20% of the population. They believe the problems of today all stem from apartheid and have nothing to do with Zuma’s corrupt years.

If you read his party’s manifesto (download available on this page), it talks about ditching the constitution and Western capitalist ideas, and reverting to more traditional leadership and life.

If they also ditch modern weapons, money, all the rest of modern civilization since 1850 and start accepting glass-pearls in exchange for slaves again, I’ll be impressed.

Starting with English, probably their lingua franca, and iron.