From that aspect I think it’s much easier for people living in the french or Italian parts to learn the language as there are no huge variations from french french or Italian Italian like there are in the Swiss German part with German.
Working in an English speaking environment with often long hours and frequent travel certainly doesn’t make it easy to learn a language.
My husband speaks decent french but it’s not as good as mine for that very reason. He spent pretty much all if his time a work speaking only English.
Actually yes! I can discern by lipreading Emmental/Oberaargau(still Ct.Bern) Dialect from Bieldeutsch or Stadt Berndeutsch and Bernese Oberland dialect for instance.
See what I meant by the confusion Swiss German dialects create?
Add to this mix a lot of reminiscenses people bring with them from wherever they moved to Kt.Zh and then you can understand the full panic mode I get into when my limited understanding of Swiss German runs out. Quick switch to High German which is confusing for the people I talk to because they had the impression I got all of it and then panicked because of few words. High German is a reliable “crutch”. My kids don’t seem to have any difficulty with understanding other dialects but they speak Züritüütsch. They’re also our most severe critics.
I’m like a parrot, acquiring simple phrases over time so I don’t stand out in simple occasional setups, but the moment a real communication is about to happen I have to admin that I speak very little.
I’ve always liked learning languages, there’s something fascinating about understanding a different language, like understanding a secret message. But the joy comes from learning organically, some words or phrases immediately land in permanent memory, others are absolutely hard to get, so I don’t stress about them. Speaking from experience, those stubborn words will come naturally at some point in the future, that’s how it is.
Regarding Swiss German dialects I don’t really see the point of learning them. I’m not a tanager who has plenty of time to hang out with people out there. The social circles in adult times tend to be reserved for families, discussing common topics about raising children in their area. I’m single and there’s close to zero “bound” with the immediate surrounding, despite the language. My social life was exactly the same when I was living in areas speaking local language fluently. Besides, there’s close to zero learning resources. I’m learning standard German as it’s quite useful here.
I’ve just come back from watching a film on a traditional Muotathaler alpler who has completed his studies on acting in musicals. Proud to say I understood every word and even knew where many of the scenes were shot.
Here’s a shout out to visiting Glattalp, the summer quarters for the protagonist.
I agree with Longbyt that I think it helps to be Swiss. My husband can pretty easily identify where someone is from based on dialect. If it’s Bernese dialect, he can often tell you the village. There was a thread way, way back on EF that had a link to a site where one could type in Swiss German words and the site would narrow down to a pretty good guess as to where a person was from. I wish I’d saved that link.
Definitely. And to have lived in a certain region or have visited very frequently, as accents and the lexicon can be a bit misleading (to a foreigner). I guess it’s the same everywhere. Kids who speak a different language at home also develop a remarkable ability to distinguish between different regional accents in a couple (or a few) languages which is amazing imo. The sooner they start the better. Apropos of a different thread here.
Anyway, in my experience the Swiss don’t really expect us (foreign adults) to speak their dialects. They appreciate when we make an effort to understand at least but are fine with standard German. And are actually quite encouraging, however imperfect that may be.
That’s my experience, but I thought it may be specific to my village I find the people in my village very nice and open. They often initiate conversations and seem to always use standard German, though “distorted” by Swiss pronunciation. You need to get used to the consonants shift, which I find quite easy by now as it more follows the standard writing than German German. Actually it’s more accurate to say that the German German has consonants shift whilst the Swiss Standard German follows the writing.
We’re past the Swiss initiating conversations in standard German with us, that’s why I am still concerned about my progress with the local dialect. As for standard German, since I moved here I changed a few language schools, teachers and learning methods and formats. OH seems to absorb languages even from just watching tv or listening to various radio programmes and is much more confident when speaking (he did some language courses too but not the constant search and “pendulation” like me) I wish I was more like that tbh. For me it’s very important to understand and use the grammar e.g. know the correct gender, declinations, conjugations etc. I never had any problems with pronounciation in standard (especially Swiss) German, funnily enough I got that very fast…not the same can be said for the Swiss German dialects.
Been in the French speaking part for 20 years and my French is still poor (B1/B2) for very simple reasons:
I have always worked and socialised in English.
I am not very good at languages.
I have a demanding job and busy family life.
If I try and speak to people in French they talk back in English generally unless they are over 60 years old.
I have done numerous courses and will pass the naturlisations tests when I get off my a**e but you certainly do not need to have good French (or Italian or German) to get a Swiss passport. (B2 is nowhere near fluency).
I would never criticise the masses of people I meet whose French is even worse than me. Switzerland as a nation give out work permits and should act if it is thought to be important that everyone working here should speak good French.
And I must say when I commuted for 10 years between Zurich and Geneva I noticed locals from the French and German part speaking to each other in English on many many occasions. Especially the young ones.
So perhaps English may eventually be an official national language but I would never say it should or shouldnt be.
I think you’re wrong. I was under the impression that in European standard language certificates B means fluent. B1 with a somewhat limited vocabulary, B2 with a much more extensive vocabulary, so you can talk about virtually any topic sounding natural. At C level, you should be able to understand the meaning behind the words, sense when words are intentionally misused (irony, jokes, poetry, etc.) and what the true meaning is. C2 is an imaginary level that only linguists can reach, as most native speakers never build up such an extensive vocabulary and language knowledge, not to mention that natives don’t adhere to linguistic correctness (i.e. actually remember grammar)
That starts at B2 level I think. At C1 you’re able to read (and understand) most written texts with a high complexity. C2 is for translators, writers, journalists etc. I know someone who teaches French here and has the C1 level in German, so it looks like C2 is indeed an imaginary level not even all linguists care or need to reach.
I find the people in my village very nice and open. They often initiate conversations and seem to always use standard German, though “distorted” by Swiss pronunciation. You need to get used to the consonants shift, which I find quite easy by now as it more follows the standard writing than German German. Actually it’s more accurate to say that the German German has consonants shift whilst the Swiss Standard German follows the writing.