We're trying to get real. I don't think anyone here denies that increasing your speed by X will stand you X% more chance of landing up in your clinic, and that no one wants that. Of course the other side of the coin is that the safest thing to do is get out and walk. So let's get real. Everywhere you walk in Switzerland you see kids smoke. According to doctors one of the most dangerous things you can possibly do, and far, far more dangerous than say, drunk driving. Police are OK with that because the kids have already paid their taxes in the cigarettes themselves, and are unlikely to be able to cough up more. Switzerland similarly has factored that they can extract quite a lot out of the average driver, especially when their income is taken into account. I don't deny that driving recklessly should be a crime, punished by jail time. Speeding already is punished by jail time in Switzerland at certain speeds and I think those are the speeds that the government actually regards as reckless and dangerous. 120kph is arbitrary and then fining someone a not inconsiderable amount over a 6kph infraction is nothing more than a tax. Nothing.
Tax you have no choice in paying, if you don't speed you won't have to pay a fine.
If your that worried about going over 120kph get a car with cruise control, or a satnav with overspeed warning, or better glasses!!
The preachiness content of this thread sure is high.
But I have to admit I have some sympathy for the confusion of the original poster. I lived in Germany for a couple of years before heading here and enjoyed the Autobahn. I'd usually sit on 160kmh if the traffic was fairly free.
But I could never understand why in Switzerland they sign doesn't just say "120" instead of that weird symbol. Some of the preachers say you should know all the road signs well for each country, but better usability would be just show the darned speed limit! CH has people crossing the border all the time. The limit isn't 120 in France - in Germany you can fang your Porsche nice and quick. It's like all these signs with an "80" with a slash through it. OK, so what now? One of my pet peeves.
Still, you have to react to the cues of the other drivers, I learnt in Germany too. If no one else is going fast, you probably shouldn't either. If only one or two cars are going fast, then still probably not.
Am I the only person that assumes when I am in a new country there is going to be a new set of road signs?
The signs of all the bordering countries to Switzerland differ from each other so it's not just Switzerland being awkward with its "de restricted" motorway sign (although I have to admit I was used to that one from the UK roads).
I started driving here soon after I arrived and had a quick masterclass with people who knew the signing and road system plus I had a look through the literature specifically so I didn't end up endangering myself and others.
I'm a woman driver and everything...
(but never got a speeding fine, though )
Oh, and call me weird but if I were doing 180 kph and found everyone else rapidly becoming a dot in my rearview mirror, I think that would clear up any "confusion" as to whether I was perhaps going a bit fast...
Confusion my ar$e...
um....no that isn't in any way true...obviously. My comparative example was the cigarette sin tax - you have to pay that?
True if I didn't speed I wouldn't pay a fine but this is macroeconomics - the authorities know that in spite of X disincentive, X people will still speed and they'll be able to afford X in fines. That's a tax my friend.
So, don't fine them at 6Kph over; only fine them starting at 12Kph over - which means everyone drives at 132Kph which makes the fine a tax in your book.
So only fine people drving 18Kph over... etc, etc
If you don't want to pay a fine for your misdemeanour, what do you want?
To have to sit in on the naughty hard shoulder for ten minutes?
There is a study from Germany that surprised everybody.
Most fatal accidents happen at speeds between 80 and 140 Km/h and more accidents are recorded at speeds below 80 then there are at above 140.
High speed fatalities may look good and juicy in the newspapers but they are not as common as you would think. Also you must take the age group into consideration, from the day you get your license to around 25 you are a good candidate for a organ donor (was that donor or döner?) if you survive that little evolutionary period you have it more or less cracked, you will be more in danger getting whacked by a under 25 in a souped up golf then a failing of your own motoring skills. All bets are off with the over 70 age group.
Sorry y'all!
In the case of bikers, most have gotten their speeding rocks off by the time the marriage monster rears it's ugly head. The breeding program then starts and the beloved bike dusting away in the garage since "I do" is traded in for a people mover, "be good hubby, put the toy away and get something safe and sensible."
When you have regained your freedom either by divorce, or the offspring leaving the fold and the wife dead you buy a bike again, remembering just how much fun it was, problem is you have moved on and so has bike technology, modern bikes are a bit more agile than the klunker you rode in 1979.
BAB's (born again biker) are more 50 times more likely to get killed in a accident than some one who has always had and used a bike.
Already been mentioned, but check out Trapster.com
From this site you can download a *.csv file which you can upload into most GPS's (the one's not integral to your car dashboard), with locations of all the speed traps, traffic light traps, and places where the piggies like to hang out with their ray guns. An absolute godsend (but not technically legal)....
Cheers
Jim
We are not talking about the tolerance limit. The tolerance limit is quoted only to disguise the nature of the limit itself which is INDIRECT taxation.
Seriously? It's the size of the fines that I have an issue with. Sure, if I break the law, even an arbitrary one, fine me. Fines in the UK are much lower and the road deaths per capita are also lower.
There's a system in place - it's not ideal but it works.
What is it that you wanted instead?
and if you get caught speeding 4 times in the uk, even 3mph over the limit, you'll lose your licence, and maybe your job etc etc as public transport isn't a viable option for most people, yes a really fair system.
I don't understand.
If you had your way, and the size of the fines was reduced, would you exceed the speed limit less/more or the same amount of times as you do now?
What's your reasoning for reducing them? Do you honestly believe that if fines were reduced, there would be less accidents?
I wasn't saying that the UK is a fairer system. I am saying that the Swiss method is a stealth tax based on averages (macro, of course). The UK method may be right or wrong (banning someone), but at least you know that they aren't being motivated by money.
I think you'll find most people think the uk system in only motivated by money, eg reducing speed limits and sticking a camera up, putting camera up at limit changes (eg just after dual carriageways) etc etc
"Speed camera partnerships" where police and councils share the 'revenue' from the cameras.
I come from Kent, and all the speed cameras in my local area are certainlly not in accident black spots! they are in areas where you can guarantee the most speeders, eg on a dual carrageway (50 limit!!!) leading onto the m20, people speed up to join the motorway, oh dear, £60 and 3 points.
I think Switzerland may have its priorities slightly skewed.
Get caught speeding, affects your residence permit.
Have an arrest warrant out for child rape, welcome to Switzerland and buy a nice chalet here!
Madness.
as before, they're all about the kesef. It's like dealing with very strict, boring mafia...and that's before we start thinking about Marc Rich, the crown prince of Zug.
yes, think what you could do with those 8 minutes! have a cup of coffee, write a comment on EF..opportunities are endless. Surely those are good reason to speed? alternatively of course you can just wake up 8 minutes earlier.
Speeding fines are not a stealth tax nor an indirect tax. It's a pay-as-you-go-faster charge (assuming you're caught).
Put plainly and simply, speeding in a moderate and responsible manner is free. I've been doing it for years.
I don't speed in towns and, from 80 zones up, apply a percentage of "go faster" to my speed.
It's also worth knowing what you can get away with when going past a fixed camera site, a temporary site (handheld) and being chased up the road by the cops.
The boundaries are documented; remain within them and you're fine.
I'm not sure if you're aware but there is a discipline called mathematics. It deals with numbers. 8minutes x 4millionpeople x numberofdaysyouchoose
makes a lot of time.
That is if you have a concept of time too