Standing first class [in the train]?

Transportation, Travel and Trips
21
What is "apparent" is that neither you nor I actually witnessed the event so everything from here on out is pure speculation based on hearsay.

I still stand on my belief it's not forbidden to pass through first class at any given time, even if the train is in motion.

Edit addition: I just sent an e-mail to the SBB which asks, "Is it forbidden (at any point) to pass through a first class car while only in possession of a second class ticket?"

22
Don’t know about the trains, but last year when I went on boat on Lake Luzern I headed for the top deck at the front to enjoy the view and was subsequently reprimanded and removed by the ticket inspector because I was standing in the First class section with a 2nd class ticket. I Didn’t know they had two classes on the boats, thoughts of walking the plank sprang to mind

Nick

23
I agree with you, but I'm simply reporting what my colleague (who sits next to me) has told me.

He has just informed me that he was worried that the fine might cause problems with his B permit renewal, so he queried the fine with the SBB in the hope they would revoke it. They sent a letter to him, which he, coincidentally, has kept at work. The letter is in English and simply reads:

"We provide information that travelling in a First Class train carriage with a Second Class fare is an offence by our Regulations.

Walking or traversing through the First Class carriage is constituted as travelling in First Class.

We remind, that in the future you should only enter a First Class train carriage if you hold a valid First Class ticket."

Unfortunately, the letter does not make any reference to the specific laws or regulations.

I would be interested to see SBB's response to your email.

24
Wow if that's true I'm shell shocked..!! Just think, a ticket controller could litterally set up a toll booth between first class and second to fine all those who jumped onboard in first class to walk through to second..!

Like I said earlier, while sitting in first class as the train had pulled away from the station there would be dozens of people walking past headed for second class. In Zurich many times the first class cars are the ones you first come to in the station and the second class are up at the front of the train, if you're arriving last minute to board a second class car in time you're forced to jump into a first class first and walk through.

I'll be sure to post the reply from SBB when it arrives.

25
Not just that, often the very last carriage is the bike/luggage wagon, then 1st class, then 2nd class. Unless the train is at the end station there just isn't enough time to load the bikes, get off, walk along platform past 1st class to enter 2nd class carriage (reverse when getting off).

Is the letter regarding SBB trains or "self-controlled" s-bahn trains?

26
The annoying thing is the distribution of carriages on the train. I take the Luzern train home from Zug every evening and it usually has 4 first class carriages which are perhaps only 30% full at this rush-hour period. The second class carriages are packed to the rafters and it is pot luck if you get a seat. A couple of times (well maybe more... ) I have waited until the ticket inspector has been through then nipped through to 1st class and taken a seat.

I pay for an annual ticket (to travel second class) but more often than not you have to stand which is a bit of a cheek, given the price of the ticket.

It would be better if they laid on more second class carriages and reduced first class to one or two carriages. The travellers in first class would easily all have seats.

27
Luckily when I travel on Business I get to travel 1st Class.

28
Even if it is forbidden, which is likely given that it is the land of a million rules, I think it'd take an over zealous jobsworth inspector to really give you a hard time/ticket if you're walking through, or standing in the doorway of, a first class carriage.

29
Many years ago, during my first big overseas trip from Australia, I remember being very impressed at the level of luxury the British rail passengers were able to travel in. Not for a second did it occur to me that you had different classes in train travel, this just didn't exist on the suburban train network in Sydney.

One Sunday when travelling back to Surrey from central London, I found myself a very nice private compartment, and entering the carriage behind me was a similarly class-confused young American guy. Soon an announcement was made that the train would be delayed for at least an hour due to an IRA bomb scare up the line, so the two of us struck up a conversation and to cut a long story short, 16 years later (almost to the day, it was 12 April 1992) we are married with two kids.

30
Apologies, I know that was off-topic but I was feeling sentimental.

31
Jobsworth? We had a great one of these Saturday on the way to Ticino for the EF MTB tour. Apparently it is against the rules to take a bicycle on a train unless there is room in a designated space. Last weekends train only had 2 bike hooks in a single carriage (no luggage wagon). By the rules only 2 bikes were allowed on the entire train. There were at least a dozen bikes spread along that train, we had the only 2 legals, plus 1 illegal and 1 in a bike bag (magically transforms into "luggage"). Even if you have purchased your 10/15- bike pass, you should patiently wait on the platform for another train with bike capacity.

We got a huge lecture from our textbook Jobsworth about what if this, what if that, what if I lose my job, what about my kids, I'll never work again, my kids future will be destroyed etc. It was mind boggling. So luckily on the return train there was a bike/luggage carriage, so we weren't jeopardising any kiddies futures, but now I find we were reckless 1st class trespassers on the way back to our 2nd class seats

Someone said they'll just take a car next time.

32
The question seems to be whether it's "verboten", "défense de", or merely "vietato". I've pardon'ed and äxgusi'd my way past many a conductor on the way to the second class cars without issue, but admittedly more of the former than the latter.

In any case, if any of you all ever wind up being asked for a ticket while simply traversing, I'd recommend just asking for the upgrade. Even travelling cross-country I've never been asked for more than about 30 CHF (I believe it's capped by the price for a full day upgrade) so it's almost certainly cheaper than the fine, and obviously far better than having your personal details taken down.

In principle, it would seem that my strategy of grabbing a first class seat early (before the remainder of the commuter crowd shows up) should be forbidden as well — transport with a second class ticket and all that — but in practice I haven't had any problems in upgrading even when the conductor hasn't arrived until 100 km later.

EDIT: after looking on the SBB site, I could only find upgrading mentioned in the context of GA's and day and month passes for 1/2 cards. I assume normal tickets can be upgraded too, but your mileage may vary. Also, the two safe solutions for bike travel seem to be bike bags and checked luggage .

33
Lucky you *envy*

34
There is an upgrade facility on the ticket machines in stations. You just pay the difference and it spits out a ticket which you show in conjunction with your normal ticket / abo.

The reason I know this is because I paid for this instead of an "Anschluss Billet" which extends your ticket's distance (i.e. my abo doesn't stretch to the airport). The conductor was okay about it and let me off.

35
Hmmm I thought that they changed the rules on this a while back and you can now only do this if you have a 2nd class GA.....

Jim

36
Yes. I've done it a few times

37
I agree that you should have been let off. People who pay for a first class ticket do so with the thought that they will always get a seat and their extra fare is for their convenience and it should not be infringed by people who are not willing to pay for the priveledge of a first class ride.

Remember Switzerland is a country of laws as is all countries and any infringements of the laws, however minute and seemingly trivial to you, diminishes all. Everyone in Switzerland supports the SBB so when you cheat the SBB you cheat all of Switzerland's citizens.

Just buy a first class ticket or ride in the compartment you bought a ticket for. That way there will be no disputes. The platforms between cars is for stowing of luggage, entering or exiting the train and using the bathrooms, certainly not for riding or blocking the exits.

Once on a trip from Neuchatel to Zuerich I was in first class and a bunch of obnoxious and loud people got on and parked themselves on the platform between cars and proceeded to smoke and be loud in spite of the fact that the car was non smoking and a quiet car.

They continued even when told to be quiet and stop smoking. Their constant milling around kept tripping the door sensor and each time the door open a great puff of smoke entered the car. A totally unacceptable group who had no regard for those who had paid for the priveledge of a first class ride but had not gotten it.

It always seems to be the young people who do this. It is though they feel the country owes them something. Get a job, earn some money do what ever you have to and participate in the democracy that you live in.

Do not be a drain on the ecomomy or use it to defraud the tax payers who do work and pay taxes and abide by the laws.

Any retort to this by anyone who does not abide by the rules is strictly a rationalization and is self serving and should be dismissed out of hand.

38
It didn't happen in Switzerland, but it was still a nice story. It'd more likely to happen in Spain or France, but I wonder if anyone ever wound up marrying a train conductor giving him/her a ticket...

39
Don't think it will happen in Switzerland , unless it is allowed in the train employees by-laws ..... You might get fine for trying 'to chat him/her up' .

40

And as promised, here is a copy of the e-mail I received from SBB today:

Dear Mr. ******** (vwild1)

Thank you for your e-mail. (n° CC*******)

You can walk through the 1st class but if you were standing or sitting in the 1st class, you have to buy a 1st class ticket.

We hope to have been of service.

Kind regards

Nicole Hischier

Swiss Federal Railways

Contact Center Passenger Traffic

P.O. Box - 3900 Brig, Switzerland

Phone: +41 (0)900 300 300 (CHF 1.19/Min)

[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) - http://www.rail.ch/