strange apartment handover procedure by Verwaltung AG

Accomodation, House and Garden
1
Hi everyone,

I visited an apartment in Zurich managed by a seemingly reputable AG. Everything was great except some weird requests by the managing AG:

- that the handover (+ checking for cleanliness and furnitures) is done between previous tenant and new tenant, i.e. the landlord is not involved between this

- that the security deposit of new tenant be paid directly to previous tenant, and that this will be the same when I moved out [After I asked for the clarification, I was told that the reason was 'the AG is lazy to go to bank to retrieve money and this way is easier']

I find this highly suspicious because the security deposit is supposed to be held in a separate rental surety account under renter's name so it can't just be transferred between tenants like this and it also doesn't make sense the reason they give about AG 'retrieving' money-- they cannot! And the handover part is weird but I couldn't find any regulation prohibiting that.

Oh and to be clear: I am a prospective tenant

Looking to hear some thoughts from EF

2
Skip it.

3
Hmm the handover portion I've experienced before, but usually the landlord will join just to make sure the new tenant is happy with the condition of the apartment ...

But the deposit does not seem correct at all, I would not accept this.

4
No, what is being suggested is not correct.

Your contract is between you and the landlord. You have no contractual relationship with the tenant who is moving in after you.

Therefore, insist that the landlord send a representative to do the handover with you. This could be the caretaker or any other person the landlord trusts, but not the new tenant. Take along any proof you have of defects that were there when you moved in, so that you will not be charged for them now.

It is okay if the new tenant is there at the same time, but the landlord or his/her agent must be there, too.

the landlord return your deposit (which will be delayed for a while, this is normal, because the landlord will need to calculate your share of the heating bill... there are other threads about this).

5
Hi doropfiz,

Thank you for your response! Sorry, I wasn't so clear, I am actually a prospective tenant, not the current one. (also just updated the post now).

But regardless, your first point still applies. And for the second point, as a prospective tenant, I guess I am not supposed to send the deposit money to the previous tenant. I clarified this again with the landlord, and they insisted that the deposit money would go from me to the previous tenant and they are not involved.

6
Sounds like a not bad scam - you pay the deposit to an individual third party, and then the company magically dissapears...

7
Hi Spinal,

Thanks for your response. Yes, and interesting enough, I think the company has run for several decades already

8
By managing AG do you mean regie?

If yes, why is the landlord even more involved other than finally deciding which dossier to accept?

9
Hi Sigh,

Sorry, I think I accidentally used the term interchangeably, just updated the post. Every landlord reference here I mean the AG administration.

Well because I would have a contract with the AG, not with the old tenant? So handover is between me and AG, and deposit money as well.

10
It is never a good idea to muddle up the lines of who is responsible to whom. You and the tenant before you have no legal connection.

If the landlord won't do things properly, now, in terms of the law, and you enter into this deal, you're probably going to have more trouble down the line.

11
I was just asking since landlords contract regies to do the administration.

If the landlord does everything no point for a regie.

Anyway it was just a detail.

As others have said, its not the norm for security deposits to "change hands" the way you describe it.

12
But does the real company know of this advert?

I.e. Immagine I'm a tenant in an apartment. I plan to leave in 3 months. I advertise the apartment myself through a fake/lookalike email address, and "accept" 10 new tenants. Of course, at the same time the real landlord advertises and picks a new tenant...

I collect the deposit from these 10 people, and the landlord collects the deposit from the 11th tenant (the one they chose)

Come moving day, the landlord/company will give the keys to an 11th tenant (that they chose); and my 10 tenants will be pissed off with a company that has no idea who these people are...

13
Vocabulary, often used interchangably, although they each mean something slightly different: the owner or landlord owns the building. Some owners or landlords deal with tenants directly. Others delegate this task to an agency or regie, who usually does at least the paperwork (contract, approving renovations, organising the deposit account, heating bills, refunds). Some buildings also have a caretaker, who is either a person or a company in charge of fixing things on-site. In some buildings, the roles of the agency and the caretaker overlap.

In any case, in this thread and others similar, the owner/landlord and representatives such as the agency/regie and caretaker form one side, and the tenant the other.

There is never any connection, contractually nor financially, nor in terms of duties or rights, between the outgoing and the incoming tenant. Neither may represent the landlord, in interactions with the other. The two exceptions that come to mind are: when the outgoing tenant allows the incoming tenant to view the apartment before the new rental contract, and if the new tenant chooses (although it is never permitted for this to be forced) to buy some items of furniture from the outgoing tenant.

14
Hi Spinal,

Yes, the managing AG knows about it. The apartment was advertised by the current tenant, who shortlisted to me, I said I am still interested and want to clarify about handover and about deposit money before sending in the application, so afterwards the current tenant connected me to speak to the AG (through the number listed on their website), which asks for the weird handover procedures I mentioned.

I too was wondering at first if these are just present tenant wanting easy way for them, but apparently, no, the managing AG is the one with the idea.

15
This happened to me. I thought it was ok, since I was entering the existing contract, and in the end everything went absolutely fine. But in hindsight it was probably not optimal, since I would have been potentially liable for all damages done since the last landlord inspection !

To be a security deposit it must be under your name, period.

What if you move out without finding a new tenant, e.g. because the building gets renovated? You won't have any deposit under your name, and no new tenant to give you money, and for sure the AG won't pay you...

Run away. If everything goes well it might work, otherwise you'll have no protection whatsoever. Someone here is offloading their part of the risk.

EDIT: just to clarify, what the AG should do is fill a form with a bank to open a deposit account. It's 5 minutes of work and a letter to the bank, no money to be retrieved; the bank and you will do all the rest of the work, namely they will send you the documents and you must fill the forms and pay the amount specified. This account has both the AG name and yours, and is released after the exit key handover when both of you sign the closure form.

Handovers and depot forms are basically the only moments (excluding repairs) at which you interact with the AG, that they don't want to be involved makes no sense. It's like bringing your car to a garage and they tell you to contact the manufacturer and order yourself the spare parts.

It could be that the AG "inherited" a suspicious contract with no deposit, and instead of cleaning up the situation they are just trying to propagate the grey contract, because if they start to do things properly they have no depot to give to the current tenant. Shady.

Or it could be that the AG is managing the apartment in an "informal" way, meaning that for some reason they have no legal right (or will) to have their names associated to the apartment and they don't want to appear on papers... that would also be shady.

16
(perhaps useless) update for interested people:

I already decided no, said no and explained to the present tenant that this is not a correct way to handle the deposit. They tried to offer an alternative to me by offering to write a “receipt” after I send the deposit money to them, and they will also ask if the AG could send such a ”receipt” for me too. For me, I have a firm no already, but it is still interesting to see new creative offers (despite the fact that the correct way is much easier!)

17
Thank you venetian

This is a great answer, I would pin it if the forum allows!

18
Just an add - it does not have to be the Verwaltung who opens the account for you. You can go to UBS for example with your rental contract and open this. The landlord is then notified.