AFAIK the Swiss Germans are the only people insisting on foreigners having to learn their dialect (rather than the official language). No German will expect a foreigner to learn their local dialect, they will praise any foreigner who has mastered German. Same for the people in Austria. And I believe this to be the same for any English- or French-speaking folks around the globe.
In which case you have come a long way on your road to full integration into the Swiss society.
True. My fiance's English is really good, but he still makes some random mistakes. He regularly uses 'did' to form the past 'I did work in Bern' rather than 'I worked in Bern', also he says 'what for' instead of 'what kind of' ie 'what for a car is that?' .... that one drives me crazy!!!
you have obviously not traveled much in the US. and I have a hard time understanding your disdain for the local language, but at least your posts have given me a greater understanding about what the locals say about Germans.
fyi, the native German speakers I know all say it takes about 3 months with a little effort to understand the local language in Zürich. and understanding is all that is asked, which doesn't seem to be asking all that much considering where some of us who are not native German speakers have to start.
Actually, I have lived in the US for quite a while and have travelled it extensively.
I pretty much understand most Swiss German dialects (now, Walliserdütsch is challenging...). I just think that it is quite rude of Swiss Germans to expect foreigners/non-SwissGerman speakers to understand Swiss German.
Just one example: The main national radio (SRF3) is broadcasting its news at the hour in Standard German, but has recently switched its traffic announcements to Mundart. I understand this perfectly well. However, how should a Romand who happens to be travellling the German part understand that, when they learn Standard German at school ? The Romands with whom I discussed this were furious about that change.
You seem to be implying that my opinion is regarded as arrogant. Remind me, why is this more arrogant than the Swiss Germans' position on this topic ? As stated before, the Austrians do not expect foreigners to understand local dialects, the French don't, the English don't. Even the Belgian people are perfectly happy if you speak or understand their respective local language - and boy, do they know about language feuds....
look, I feel you 110%, there is nothing I would love more than for locals in Zürich to willingly speak English all the time, just as I would love the locals in Stuttgart to speak English. unfortunately for me, however, I am inside somebody else's borders, not my own.
You seem to miss my point entirely. English is not an official language in Germany or in Switzerland. Swiss German (as in Standard German plus helvetisms) is an official language in Switzerland. No flavor of Mundart is an official language in Switzerland.
And by insisting on Mundart the Swiss Germans are not only alienating us foreigners, but also their fellow countrymen, who learn Swiss German (not Mundart) at school. Thus they are fostering English as a lingua franca within Switzerland. That may be a nice side effect for all expats, but IMHO doesn't really help the Swiss society.
2 things I have learned in my 18 months here in Switzerland - the Swiss are not terribly concerned about alienating you or I, and they are likewise not particularly interested in what you or I think helps or does not help Swiss society. but I see your point, Swiss society is way better off using high German as its "lingua franca" as opposed to English.
Sigh. I_do_not_promote_High_German_as_a_lingua_franca_fo r_Switzerland.
I admire the Swiss because - unlike Belgium - they had come to a balance of languages at least between the French- and German-speaking parts, with the children in one part learning the language of the other part.
However, why would a Romand want to learn Swiss German at school when this is of very limited use in the Mundart-speaking parts of Switzerland ?
I love learning languages and since i will be moving to Switzerland i am learning High German for now but once i am fluent I will be trying to understand and learn Walliserdeutsch because i will be living in Wallis. I love their dialect mainly because it sounds like a mix of Russian and swedish to me, some words are very thick like russian but sometimes their voice goes up and down like in swedish, very very interesting dialect.
Anyway I use this website to help me with german tenses http://www.verbix.com/ Its not absolut best site but it helps, Only thing i do have to say is that there is only one tenses i have to say i never ever use in english or it least i think so. Just to use ( run ) as an example.
Future perfect
I will have been running
I never use this tense in this way at all with any verbs it least i think. It just sounds so abnormal for me to use.
you need to use "run" as a past participle, as in "I will have run 3 miles before breakfast". for example, "After this post, I will have used the future perfect tense in English two times in 40 years."
But you could also use the future perfect in the continuous form and say for example :
I will have been running for six hours by the time I reach Chicago.
Having said that I wouldn't stress too much trying to learn it as it is not something we use often and you can get by perfectly easily in English without ever having to use it at all.
They would`t dare if they know you from Detroit I would not knowingly alienating you ,eh maybe
The point about the "national language" is alright, but for example in the Cantons of Appenzell, St. Gallen, Thurgau, Glarus, Schaffhausen, Zürich, Zug, Luzern, Uri Schwyz Unterwalden, Aargau, Solothurn, Basel (both) there is only ONE official language and that is German. In Ticino, only Italian is official, in Graubünden it is German, Romansh and Italian (NOT French), in Geneva, Vaud, Neuchâtel and Jura it is ONLY French. Valais/Wallis, Fribourg/Freiburg and Bern/Berne are officially BIlingual (but NOT TRIlingual).
You declare Wallis/Valais as your location. In Brig, the official language clearly is German, in Sion the official language is French. The language borders in much of the country are knife-sharp, with only some specific areas being BIlingual.
Take a train from Zürich to Lugano. The conductor on board and the salesman of beverages etc will both speak German up to Göschenen but once in Airolo they continue business in Italian. Go onto a highway towards Geneva. Street signs will change from German into French within 2 kilometers.
The point is to respect these in fact well visible language borders. Generals Dufour and Guisan were so successful not least because they had this reality fully in command. When they crossed the language border they changed their language.
I guess you do realize that this is a rubbish excuse and your colleagues are not entirely honest with you... all Swiss learn the other national language at school. Every year are tons of teenagers spending time in the other parts of the country to learn it better and understand their admittedly complicated country and culture.
The language thing among Swiss is highly political. I worked before in a large Swiss company with colleagues from literally every corner of the country. I worked with a French speaking project manager who - while not perfect - would do his best to run meetings in German. The switch to English happened frequently in higher management: As soon as you had a mix of people in a meeting and the topic was important would no side back down. Suddenly would the French speakers claim that their German is not good enough to discuss so a complicated topic and vice versa... You know that you lose if you do back down - if I discuss a topic that affects my career do I want to do it in my language. The next best thing is not necessarily my second best language (if the other guy happens to be a native speaker in it) but the one where no side has an unfair advantage...
That's one of the reasons why native English speakers are not always that welcome if you force Swiss to first switch to your language and then ridicule them for being worse than you are at it. You do not need to say that directly, speaking way too fast and using terms a foreign speaker most likely does not understand is enough...
For those short on time, here's Wolli's summary: Switzerland has 4 languages within specific geographic areas.
Now tell your friends that you learned something new today ....
Forget getting the French to admit to that one. They would rather die.
Personally, I find the more i drink the more fluent I am in EVERY language...
Which i realize is because the alcohol gives me more "Confidence" to speak... but the quantity is a fine line and if that line is over stepped ... may impact on my fluency of English.
I recall a trip over the border one night- Our taxi was stopped by the border police, when asked when our passports were we just kept telling him "Chicken" . . . the word we were looking for was "schengen"
Of course, it's completely unknown for Swiss to insist on speaking their dialect is at a full rate of knots, when the person they are speaking to is obviously a non-native German speaker
We had a discussion the other way around, regarding meetings in English last week at our office. 8 people speaking German, 1 or 2 speaking English. And then we have to speak 2hours in more good or bad English, because of 1 or 2 persons... And it is not that they have just arrived in Switzerland.
And as someone said here before you dont feel comfortable if you have to speak about important things in a foreign language, and even in a language that is not the language of the country you are living in. Sometimes that is a little bit hard to understand.