Torrent Download - legal or not

Tech, TV, Mobile, Internet and Geek Corner
21
Nope. You can configure the client to upload nada, or you can use something like Bitthief which does the 'hard' work for you. Made in CH too.

22
Hi! I just recieved this E-Mail from my ISP provider here in Zug:

23
What's there to be confused? Your ISP said "we don't see any reason to take any actions"... which translates to "screw them, this is Switzerland!"

24
Your ISP is just covering their collective asses. They got the letter from a company paid by a media company to chase down, bully or sue potential pirates because they were able to see that some of their IPs were probably torrenting copyrighted files and they were warned to do something about it.

They passed on a copy of this, most likely, to all of their customers.

Now they have done something about it and don't feel they need to do anything more. Case closed.

25
Yes I realized that. I've removed some of the details on the letter. This download happend this weekend I mean just wow that was a fast response coming from overseas how did they track this?

Thank god I never upload any content.

26
what film was it?

unless the law has changed recently its a moot point, as a swiss isp isn't allowed to give your details over to them.

27
They typically don't give interviews on that bit... but: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/d...29-1mw93k.html

28
Well if you torrent then you almost certainly are uploading at the same time you're downloading. That's how torrents work.

It's true that uploading is illegal while downloading is legal so torrenting is a grey area, and it's a grey area based on this:-

Downloading is legal based on the premise that it's impossible to know what you're downloading until you've downloaded it. With torrenting, as long as you're not seeding a fully downloaded file, it is again impossible to know what you're uploading until you have fully downloaded the file. So, as long as you kill the torrent as soon as is practical after download you should theoretically be in the clear. IANAL and this is just my interpretation, so YMMV.

The truth is that Swiss ISPs couldn't give a toss really as, due to privacy laws, they can't legally hand over your details to anyone other than the Swiss legal authorities, and then it would need to be something a lot more serious than the odd download/upload.

So far I'm not aware of anybody who's been prosecuted, or for that matter hassled by a "copyright protection company", in Switzerland for basic torrenting - although I'm prepared to be corrected on that.

29
There's a whole industry involved in monitoring torrent downloads and sending out speculative letters to try to get some money. Then there's a whole industry involved in offering to defend these claims. We got caught out by this by (illegally) downloading one movie in Germany. I always heard in Switzerland there's some kind of "piracy tax" included in everyone's internet fees but I don't know how true that is. In Germany, the ISPs are supposed to only give out subscriber information if there's a strong case for criminal activity but it seems they give the details to anyone who asks. I'm told in Switzerland they don't give out the details so easily.

30
Yes, I've heard from germans receiving a fine of 1000€ for downloading a couple of mp3 files.

Anyway I think that these american organizations control more the new films. If you download some old films (2+ years old) once in a while it's not going to be a problem.

Internet is so complicated to control... you have the streaming sites (with no upload), or you have programs like soulseek for music with no upload if you don't want.

31

It's not a fine - it's hush money - pay them the money and they won't report you to the authorities.

32
It would be easy to do so.

All they need to do is torrent one of their client's movies and see who connects. From that they would get a list of IP's, which in turn they could easily look up to give them an owner (typically an ISP) and contact details, from which all they need to do is send an email. The whole thing could be automated and in real time, in theory.

They're probably monitoring IP's for the larger offenders - there's quite a few companies where the twenty-something sysadmin (and only person with any IT knowledge there) is quietly running a bit torrent server on their fixed IP. Easy to find and often easy to go after legally.

33
The first part isn't theoretical - it's exactly what they do, purely automated.

As for the larger offenders, that's sadly not the case. There are plenty of documented cases (including friends of mine in the states) where people have been "busted" for a one-off offense.

34
I was speculating more than speaking theoretically (i.e. what I would do if I were them).

Another approach would be to share poisoned files, so that they ruin the downloads they're shared with. Apparently this approach has not worked well, simply because there are too many people out there downloading - they simply cannot stop it from a technical point of view.

I'd imagine their policy is to try and find the big offenders, but to go after a token small one on a regular basis to make an example of them, so as to scare off others.

35
Unless they are the original provider of a file, the bittorrent protocol doesn't allow that. This because this protocil "divides" the files in parts and after each download there's a integrity verification (SHA-1 checksum). If only a bit of this was modified, the verification fails and is deleted by the protocol.

I believe the other approach is more likeley, it's like the DEA doing drug deals to identify offenders...

36
Hello everybody

Does anybody has latest info. if still downloading through torrent legal or not?

(I would like to download a latest Bollywood movie)

Thanks in advance

R

37
Watching it will be enough of a punishment already :-)

38
I confirm this. A friend of mine runs such a business. Typically you download only to identify the uploaders (and minimize legal issues for yourself).

He works with law firms to provide details and gets a split of the settlement fees. Key is preserving the chain of evidence so it works in court. The only thing needed from the ISP is confirmation of the person to link to the IP (technically there are ways also to discover this, but may not be legal/withstand legal attack in court).

We were also able to look up IPs of people we know see what stuff they'd been sharing...

39
A VPN would nullify all these efforts and this only for a couple of bucks a month.

Even without a VPN I think it is not so easy to prove that someone uploaded something.

- you need to get the IP address from the ISP provider. The ISP provider might not be willing to do it or able to do it. IP addresses change in time so the provider needs logs that might go quite some time back into the past.

- even if you get the IP address, this doesn't say anything. An IP address can be easily spoofed, this is trivial.

So you hardly get something valid in court, the whole business only works if you manage to scare the potential victims and make them pay before you go to court.

This being said I would stay with the VPN to get the ISP out of the loop.

40
who's the vpn provider? maybe you pick one in the US more than happy to respond to legal requests to give up your name.

or maybe one of the trojan vpns who also get a commission on successful lawsuits...