UK NHS versus Swiss health insurance

And here I thought Swiss basic insurance was made to cover any hospitalization costs (minus the franchise amount) as a matter of law, if said hospitalization was ordered by a Doctor (I don't know who else would order a hospitalization)

Median income for South-East England: £28,800

Median income for London: £31,700

2012 figures, source ONS ( SE , LON )

Maybe was median household income I was thinking of ... in any case not so far off and represents simply a normal income for comparative purposes.

Depending on the level of insurance there are very often exemptions and limitations, especially with pyschiatric problems.

Firstly a medical problem (pyschiatric), which would have been passed onto social services when the patient was stable.

About NURSES... Somebody asked: "You're a nurse? That's cool, I wanted to do that when I was a kid. How much do you make?" The nurse replied: "HOW MUCH DO I MAKE?"... I can make holding your hand seem like the most important thing in the world when you're scared... I can make your child breathe when they stop... I can help your father survive a heart attack... I can make myself get up at 5 am to make sure your mother has the medicine she needs to live... I work all day to save the lives of strangers... I make my family wait for dinner until I know your family member is taken care of... I make myself skip lunch so that I can make sure that everything I did for your wife today is charted... I make myself work weekends and holidays because people don't just get sick Monday thru Friday... Today, I might save your life... How much do I make? All I know is, I make a difference.

How do you fit all of that onto a tax form?

Er..what tax form?

The Steuererklärung form... where it says Total der Einkünfte.

Had to go look up an old income tax form to get the German right ;-)

I guess I misunderstood the Swiss medical system, I thought the differentiating factor between the Swiss system and the US system was the requirement that each Swiss insurance provider must provide a basic plan, and the basic plan did not deviate in exemptions and limitations from provider to provider and the government stipulated what a basic plan must cover at a minimum.

This is correct - basic insurance is mandatory and the government sets out what's covered, as I understand it.

I suspect far less likely to be treated as a medical problem in the UK in the first place. We have no idea of symptoms; just described as being 'withdrawn'.

The NHS really is awfully basic when there isn't an obvious, immediately urgent situation. When there is, then it generally kicks in fairly effectively. But if not then it tends to exclude you, for example using extremely long waiting lists for appointments.

OK. Should have explained better: Withdrawn/self harming/eating problems (anorexia).

It's always best to discuss certain treatments/hospital stays etc. first with the insurance to see what they WILL and won't pay for.

Someone else I know of was admitted to a stay in a pyschiatric hospital (having been abused by her brother as a child), and ended up there for 6 months. The insurance then refused to pay most of the debt incurred and bankrupted the family.

In the aforementioned case probably the insurance refused to pay for more than a 2 week stay on the basis of a non-diagnosed case.

Ah not in that 120+ income bracket sadly

Here is a real case for comparing NHS and Swiss systems: My friend and colleague here (Switzerland) who worked with me for a year in the same company was diagnosed with stomach cancer last March. The diagnosis happened with his first visit to his local GP in London, after repeat visits to Swiss doctors for 7 months who kept giving him all sorts of medication and advice for his pain and symptoms not even guessing that this could be cancer. Within a week of discovery by his GP, he was referred to the Oncologist at St Thomas's hospital in London, biopsies taken, and all kinds of blood tests done, all for free and all very professional. He lost his job here eversince as his contract was not renewed, his Swiss sickness insurance paid him the bare minimum salary and then stopped . Meanwhile he underwent surgery, chemo and radiotherapies in London.

Yes the UK NHS may have it's downsides, ancient hospitals and may be long queus, but when it comes to serious issues, they are serious and have some of the best trained people in the world, and yes free at the point of delivery to all. Something every Brit should be proud of.

And another one:

When my children were 2 and 4 years old, the younger one had ulcers all around his mouth. The GP here didn't know what it was but gave me a cream to try anyway.

3 days later I was in England and on a Sunday afternoon the older one had really bad stomach pains and didn't seem too well. We called the doctor who made a house visit on a Sunday afternoon. He seemed more concerned about the ulcers round the mouth of the younger one, than the stomach pains of the older one which he dismissed as stomach upset.

He queried the ulcers and after telling him the story and showing the cream I had received here in CH, thought that the cream was the wrong treatment and that the ulcers were impetigo. He gave me a prescription for an antiobiotic cream and sure enough they cleared up almost overnight. All this for free.

Upon my return I found a nice little doctor's bill for more than 100 franks, for a wrong diagnosis and cream that didn't work.

THE NHS has completely been fleeced by foreigners coming to have children and get fixed up as it appears to be free to all.

THE UK is now totally skint and bankrupt due to this and the generous benefits system being claimed by all.

Jo Public has no idea of the total bankruptcy of the governments and banks in the UK and the West.

They will realise in about 20 years time when there is no state pension.

Perhaps it's not really a fair comparison if we only look at quality of care, as to my knowledge many of the best physicians here had their final training in London...

London, or the US. Mine have done fellowships in good places in the US - Mayo, Mass general, NCI, UCSF. And if others train in London, then that begs the question whether or a comparable UK doc has done an equally good fellowship. Or, the extent to which that matters.

You can bring up anecdotes and single instances, and there will always be situations where one case was handled better in the UK and another in Switzerland. More population based measures like patient satisfaction, waiting times, and outcomes - like hospital infection rates would help to paint a more complete picture. But in the end, it's subjective and strongly informed by your own experiences and prejudices.