The situation and its resolution are different for everyone. Some are happy to do their taxes and have done so for years so may not ever have any problems with the Swiss banks. Others are only here for a few years on assignment and expect to return to the States so, of course, they just have to put up with it. But for those, like me, who haven’t lived in the states for many years, have another nationality and expect to spend their remaining years outside the States why bother to hang on to something that is causing so much trouble? For me, the US part of my world is neglible having spent only the first 16 years of my life there.
I frankly do not understand your “rational choice theory that such a decision is against their interests, even if the Petitioner has no intent to reside in the United States in the future.” British citizenship, if you have it, is also forever - so what? Many countries have “forever” citizenship if you’re born there or are naturalised, the US isn’t exclusive in that regard. And if it was really “forever” there would be no statutes/laws/regulations on how to go about renouncing it.
It is not against my interests to renounce my US citizenship so as not to become entangled in unfair taxation policies and Swiss banks threatening to close my accounts because of my nationality. It is in my interests to make sure that the money my husband works hard for is ours to do with as we wish after paying due taxes in the country in which we LIVE in, and not subject to another country’s tax grab to cover services theoretically rendered just because I’m labelled a citizen of that country.
And are you seriously suggesting that the US would bar me from going to a US hospital for vital treatment, even though I’ve renounced and now use another country’s passport? PLEASE. The US is not the be all and end all that most Americans would like to believe it is and it’s time it grew up and realised that.
Evidently it only take 1 visit to the US embassy here in Bern to do the renunciation process. Make an appointment, fill in the forms, take the oath of renunciation and that’s it. Certificate of Loss of Nationality will be in the post at some future date. Good news for those wanting to take this step as I know some other US embassies insist on a waiting period so you can reflect on the serious step you’re planning to take. As if you haven’t already.
Then there’s only the tax side of things to sort out (sigh).
If you want the current political climate and bank policy, which will likely change in the coming year, to determine your citizenship and entire future for the rest of your life, that's your right. It's foolish, and you will be turned away if you attempt to return. You will feel foolish if/when the political climate changes. But go ahead and renounce your citizenship. You seem to know everything.
Personally, it makes no difference to me whether or not someone wants to be a citizen of the United States. The point here is that this country has a lot to offer and you may need its services in the future. The immigration law in the US is strict and can even be considered cruel in parts, depending on your perspective. If you renounce your citizenship, it's forever, and under the intending immigrant presumption, you're chances of getting back to the country are next to nil. Should you need the services or protection of the USA, you're not going to get it. If the banking policy changes in the next year, you've lost your citizenship for a nonexistent issue. It seems silly.
That problem is absolutely understandable. If it were me, I would wait a while to see how the upcoming presidential election plays out, what goes on in the next year with the banking issues, and then making a decision. This is serious stuff and you would be better off waiting for a little while.
conspiracy stuff and food for thought http://nontaxpayer.net/irsnara0.html
Been there, no problem whatsoever.
Tom
From a question and answer site:
"Intending immigrant means anyone who is not a citizen or legal resident of the u.s who applies for admission at the borders is considered to be an intended immigrant until they can provide proof of their intentions to return to the country of origin.
In simple terms that means when you apply to enter the u.s. You automatically are considered to have the intentions of immigrating(moving or coming to live) in the u.s. At this point you have to provide proof that your intentions are to exit the states in a timely manner based on the visa you have or 90 days if you apply visa waiver. Now just because you have a visa doesn't mean you automatically get to enter the states. A visa or visa waiver basically gives you the ability to knock on the door, cbp makes the decision to open it and invite you in."
You insult our intelligence by suggesting anyone wait 'to see how the upcoming presidential election plays out', as if a presidential election has made a difference in our lifetimes or before.
On the topic of extradition, Switzerland does not extradite its citizens. It may, on the other hand, try and sentence them under its laws for offenses committed abroad. Consider the case of Erwin Sperisen, a Swiss-Guatemalen dual-citizen, who was arrested yesterday in Geneva:
Wash. Post excerpt: "Because of Sperisen’s Swiss nationality, the prosecutor’s office said, he is not subject to extradition and will face criminal proceedings in Geneva."
and from the horses mouth so to speak... this also backs up ST2lemans's answer
So, are you saying it's okay for the U.S. gov't to ask us to continue to contribute to their revenue? Even though we do not live there? We are a family of 6, making ends meet on 1 income, paying taxes to the country we live in, but we still need to continue to contribute to the U.S.'s revenue? Do you think this is fair?
1. Banking
2. Insurance
3. Pharmaceuticals
4. Chemicals
5. Watches
6. Medical devices
7. Commodity trading
8. Headquarters operations
According to a Tages-Anzeiger article, bank customer privacy adds about CHF 1,000 income per capita to the Swiss economy. Manufacturing, which represents 20% of the economy, is responsible for $12,400 of income per capita, and is the highest in the world. (see links in German).
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtscha...story/13236212
http://www.avenir-suisse.ch/18772/da...land-der-welt/
For the record, Florida and Texas have significant amounts of undeclared deposits from Latin America. The US might wish to focus on cleaning this up. Consider this article that appeared in the Miami Herald:
In that case they’ve been making the assumption for everyone who visits the States in any capacity for as long as the US has been in existence. But, again many other countries make the same assumption.
Thousands of people who have renounced their citizenship have happily and easily recrossed the border back into the US without any problems at all, jdeere765. I don’t doubt as an immigration attorney you’ve had to act for some people who have had problems, but please don’t tar everyone with the same brush. Everyone’s circumstances are different regarding being allowed entry.
And you make a big assumption that I or anyone else would want or need the services or protection of the US after giving up our citizenship. As a British national - which I would be after giving up US one - I would look to that country for those should the country I currently live in, Switzerland, be unable to help me.
Anyone who is defending the US government under such conditions can only be ashamed of themselves. This is unacceptable. It is horrible. It is a crime against humanity.