???
I think this is something you either "get" or you don't, while you can be taught to mimic it, if you don't get it, you just don't get it. No one can teach you to understand.
If you hate a job or went into it unwillingly, no matter what the job is, somehow, some way, it will show. You will do sloppy work, you will appear sloppy while doing it. A janitor (or manager of broomstick cabinet ) may very well have - and deserve - pride in a job well done. "Pride of uniform" is simply being proud of being identifiably attached to that well-done job.
How do you know someone is in the military? By the "uniform" they wear. Same goes with many jobs.. sometimes the "uniform" is beyond clothing and goes to something as obvious as a hairstyle or as obscure as the "you'll know it when you see it" military bearing.
That's you and according to other similar things I've heard, likely a lie told to try to get out of doing military service.
I can understand not wanting to be FORCED to do service, I can't understand lying about being a coward.
Of course I haven't and I don't know even know why our troops are still in Germany. I have a tiny mind.
Ever hear of the Roman Empire?
Is that the Vatican? Protected by Swiss guards!
Oddly enough, that is true. The Roman Catholic Church is the last vestigial remnant of the Roman Empire, kind of like the dinosaurs turning into birds.
Back to the start, I've seen the oik's lounging around and national service or not it looks just plain unprofessional, but then watch the same kids in 'civvies and they look like a sack of shit too. Volunteers who take the queen's shilling do so for a number of reasons, but almost without question behave responsibly and professionally when in uniform.
As for ethics of service life and what one may be called upon to do, people have the luxury to make that statement off the backs of people who have served, so be thankful you have the choice. Don't be so quick to point fingers at the troops on the ground in difficult situations, they would be better aimed at self serving governments who control them.
As for the Swiss army, if seen more grit, determination, and fighting spirit on a volleyball court, and would point out that delivering post and checking roads after the shooting stopped in the Balkans, actually shows were the UN see their military worth.
Anyone still see any movement?
The German Waffen SS was probably the smartest and sharpest looking bunch of soldiers of all times..... not sure whether that's something to be proud of though.....
Didn't know you'd been in the Swiss Army, Papa Goose?!
Anyway, my husband was quite high up in the SA and looks down on the "oiks" he sees slouching around in their unkempt uniforms today. Youngsters today, etc,etc.
Times have changed, even here in CH.......
Was he in a mountain troop then?
Nope not the Swiss army, I was a member of HM armed forces... was your husband up a ladder, on a mountain, or maybe a tall building in SA, you didn't say. Still glad you recognise the term.
there is a 'C' in bollocks....
Accused ! Proofen ??You where there, so tell me what you have seen of the Canadian misconduct
Such is the reason why I am in favour of a professional army. But with the second defence minister in a row, advocating a vast infantry army in this small country, and advocating a militia army, I in case of a vote will vote in favour of a complete abolition of the armed forces in Switzerland.
But at the other hand, YOU might go up and tell those soldiers what sense their service really has ! what enemy is hiding behind the next bush ! and where the troops will find required space in case of a K-MOB (to use a "sogenannte Schweizerische Erläuterung" this means a full war-mobilisation program) ! And you also might explain them how Switzerland is ever to use fighterjets who fly from Geneva to the Bodensee in 10 minutes ! So much for the zero-motivation of them.
I don't agree with you. Not wanted to go to the army doesn't make you a coward. To not want to fight and kill other human being doesn't make you a coward. Some are build up for it, some don't. And this should be respected. Being force to go and not wanted to go may bring someone to lie about something to get away from the obligation. I have no problem with it.
During the second war, the Canadian gouvernment passed a law to force all men in shape to join the army and were send to Europe. My beloved grand-mother used to tell me story of how it was in the villages during the recrutment... Men were hiding in the forest and waited for days until the army was gone. Some cut some body parts to be invalid and being dismissed... I would never ever dare to call any of those men cowards.
War is a nasty thing and Armies are for the toughs, it should never been force. In Turkey, we have cousins forced to go to the army. One of my best friend went there and he is on meds for psychological problems since years now. He couldn't avoid it and if he could he would had avoid it.
I have an other friend who lives now in Australia to avoid to do the army. I know he will not take it well and would more than certainly finish like our friend.
He is not a coward to me.
Nope, reread what I said.
I don't think he is a coward, I think he LIED about being a coward in order to get out of doing military service.
Thankfully in the US, there are enough volunteers that they do not have to invoke the draft. If there were "enough" men who abstained from voluntary service, in times of war (like now) they'd have wound up either being drafted anyhow regardless of how they felt about the politics of the situation - just like what happened with Vietnam - or breaking the law and taking off.
I can totally understand not wanting to serve. One of my brothers voluntarily joined the US Navy, the other though, I can imagine he'd have headed off to Canada (or someplace) to "escape" the draft. I couldn't in a million years imagine that brother serving in the military - I also though can not for a millisecond imagine him "claiming" to be a coward. He doesn't believe in fighting, end of story.
I realize it may not make sense to anyone else but to me, claiming to be a coward when one is actually not is worse than actually being one.
The title of the discussion is offensive I find.... "or at least not Swiss"
In the UK and other countries, people can chose to join the army. It's voluntary (well at least for the past few decades).
These countries can't be compared with Switzerland. Israel and Switzerland are the only countries where all males are actually born both "citizen and soldier" (for Israel this also applies to the girls).
All Swiss do their duty. If they can't for any accepted reason (medical etc) then they do civil service instead. If that's not possible, a % of their salary is contributed.
It's a very serious institution, and though I don't wish to express an opinion, if you're going to debate it, at least have the correct facts.
What's your point? Maybe the Swiss people involved should have shown some respect for the institution/uniform... especially if it's taken so seriously, else the thread wouldn't exist, and people wouldn't get the chance to voice an opinion
Surely when making a statement like this you have to be comparing like with like. Comparing on-duty soldiers on "parade" to some off-duty soldiers isn't. I'm sure you wouldn't see the same spit-and-polish on the British soldiers when off-duty!
Overall, looking beyond the military, young Swiss males are much more disciplined and more likely to contribute positively to their country/community than their UK counterparts. I certainly see a lot less "yobs" here than are seen on every British high street. Guess which I'd be more proud to be...