Very proud to be British. Or at least not Swiss

Actually there are several more countries that have obligatory military service in Europe: Austria, Denmark, Finland and Greece are just a few examples.

The you would be largely incorrect, as hair/stubble doesn't grow that quickly, or the inability to lean how to use boot polish, a brush or an iron. For at least 2 arms of HM forces (I can't speak definitively for the army) whenever in uniform being off duty or not, it is a chargeable offence to dress or behave in a 'manor unbecoming' or likely to bring the service 'into disrepute'. From memory, being reported for not wearing headdress was enough to get you charged and a couple of days cleaning the mess kitchens.

The other day I was on a train heading into Zurich and there was a young lad in uniform who was as smart as 10, real poster boy stuff, but I never paid any attention to insignia so didn't note rank or branch, just he was immaculately turned out, but I've also seen the type the OP describes. and I know which left the better impression. So I guess the ability to wear the uniform with some sort of pride (in the service or there own appearance) is a personal thing.

This thread needs some Oscar.

As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular.

Oscar Wilde

I have a couple of young Swiss lads in my dept - both developers. One is now at Uni but works one day a week with us. Both excellent workers, on the ball, spot problems a mile ahead. No problem working with them.

Cheers,

Nick

Fixed that for you.

In Turkey a man will not find a job if he didn't serve first. For the reason that most compagnies don't want to miss a worker for a period up to 18 months. If you have a four years university degree you might have enough luck to serve ''just'' for 6 months. Where they send you depends on who you know and how much you pay someone... If you are enough lucky, you'll do your time in Erdek or Antalya (Beaches and Resort) if not, you might be in the extreme east side of the country where it is the war (against PKK).

So I think the kids here have it pretty easy. I don't approve the obligation to serve and will never. When done in those conditions compared to others countries, I don't see much why some are running away.

In Turkey, everytime a boy has to go for his military service, it is a stress and anxiety on him and the family because you don't know if he will come back.

From what I recall seeing on the streets, the Swiss military carry their automatic weapons in open view on their way to/from doing service. I think out of neccessity they cannot change into civilian clothes while travelling..otherwise instead of your perception of slovenly soldiers, you would perceive a threatening gang of heavily armed teenagers.

i do get the point that for public image and for the sake of what an army stands for the forces up to lower grades should be more representative.in germany miltary police looks after it and thats ok.it was discussed here too, but...

@pegA: i tell you what the reaction was:LOL! youre not going anywhere anyhow(in a 10 month service as a private you wont go nowhere outside the basecamp)and now go and do that training parcour as for not doing youll get a couple of days in a nice cell.after the usual 3month drill i was sent to an office that took care about the familys of guys down in kosovo. i never had to take a gun into my hand ever as a result of above mentioned. instead i supported those familys back home, shitting themselfes whenever press reported of a explosion somewhere in ex yugoslavia nowhere near of "our troops". all 3 months we organised a fam event with coffee n cakes and some entertainment for the kids. i edited a magazin with latest news and greetings page etc. and yes...i felt a bit of proud! that i did something human, social that helped to overcome hard times that these people had.

Isn't there an old adage - "a man does not a uniform make" and if there isn't, well, there should be.

NO NO NO NO NO !!! The Swiss armed forces fo NOT have ANY respect from 95% of its soldiers ! It is accepted as rubbish to go through, it is accepted as your duty, but to ask to respect the sh....ty rubbish clearly goes thousands of miles toooooo far !

obviously you don't see it - since you never had to do it. having a hard time with women making statements like that.

They in Bern HB did not look like THIS

or THIS

or THIS

Good comment ! But pleaeaeaease do NOT use the abbreviation SA, as that does not mean the Swiss armed forces but a particular unit of the NSDAP

And there we have it, in a nutshell...

CH

Conscripted

No respect for the institution they are forced to be part of

No respect from the people who force them to be a part of it

UK

Professional

Respect for the institution they have chosen to be part of

Respect from the people who because of them need not be a part of it

Exceptions exist, of course - when I first came to Switzerland, a colleague who had learned of my past, was desperate to tell me his role in the Swiss Army.

Once we had cleaned up the mess - a mouthful of coffee unfortunately propelled by the sudden expulsion of a lungful of air, whilst simultaneously laughing and saying "BLOODHOUND?!?!?" can cover quite an area - we got chatting, and it became clear that he took the job seriously, and did it to the best of his ability and with pride. Interestingly enough, he didn't take the threat seriously, but he at least could separate the two issues at stake. He also commented at one point that there was no-one in his battery who didn't want to be there.

And there's the Catch 22: if all the conscripted elements behaved and performed in a such a manner - "I don't really choose this, but I'll do my best for my country" - the numbers of conscripts required could be reduced and reduced. But, of course, that needs a degree of altruism that you don't get with conscription.

As Papa Goose said, any misbehaving whilst in uniform in the UK services will get the Regulators, or equivalent Service Police, dropping on you like a ton of bricks.

You know this is completely off-topic but then the whole thread is, so what the heck.

I knew back in 1993 and from a credible source -- a Norwegian doctor who also served in Bosnia and was sent to the Bakovici hospital to help. He was actually quite sympathetic to the Canadians -- said that it was terrible and incomprehensible what they did there but that they must have lost moral compass being in the middle of Balkan madness.

And if you still do not believe it, here it is, confirmed by the Canadian Government itself: "17 January 1997 - The Department of National Defence made public a report which confirmed many of the allegations of misconduct by Canadian peacekeepers at the Bakovici hospital in the former Yugoslavia. Because of the statute of limitations on disciplinary proceedings, the soldiers involved will not face courts martial." ( http://dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collectio.../CIR/961-e.htm )

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Not wearing "headdress" was a serious offence here until a short time ago, when that rule was DROPPED

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to have the boots polished is a controlled and definite rule still. BUT, the boots they take on for the weekend leave is NOT controlled as on Saturday morning also the officers are rushing

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it also in Switzerland, as recently confirmed by CIC Blattmann, still is a chargeable offence to "dress/behave" in a "manner (not manor) likely to bring the service into disrepute". .... and he promised that the Military Police still has the power to intervene, as they really DO.

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But here I tend to get angry. All foreigners here complain about CH folks sticking to rules, and when some CHers do not, then hell breaks loose ! You cannot have it both ways, CHers sticking to rules as you like it on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and being flexible when you like it on Tuesday and Thursday !!!

Ask them however whether they have a "problem" with the CH army .... !

It won't seem as bad when the caffeine kicks in, save your anger old chap... tis the tinterweb.

All I see is someone posting about the slovenly appearance of some guys in uniform, not the reason for an army (regular or conscript) in CH, or the whether Swiss stick to their own rules or not

A) you have to be on military uniform ENROUTE to your domicile

B) your car however is part of your domicile, so you can change when you reach your car

C) in military service, sports clothes are accepted, so that to get into sports gear is an alternative

D) you when going to do the Obligatarische (yearly duty-shooting) you are in civilian clothes, but also have you automatic weapon quite openly with you (in trams, S-Bahnen or SBB-trains), so what ?

E) people going to shootings, in civilian clothes of course, not least members of shooting clubs, get around in civilian clothes and carry that automatic weapon quite openly, so I fail to see your point

You got it 100% right. Sure, if you in the military have a "job" which makes a tiny bit of sense you try your very best to do something good for you and your colleagues, out of self-respect and out of solidarity with your colleagues but NOT out of respect for the "institution" !

Don't over analyze. My point was not about Swiss regulations for donning uniforms. It was to point out to the OP that her remark that they should have changed into civilian clothes if they were going to act slovenly would have resulted in her seeing a group of slovenly teenagers in AC/DC T-shirts or ghetto clothing in no obvious official capacity carrying automatic weapons, which probably would have freaked her out even more.