Maybe you have not read my post.
In summary: Chryslers made in Graz for the European market have excellent quality. And even the Chrysler I had in the States was just fine.
The Crossfire is the old SLK platform with a new body, the rest is German engineering, even the engines.
I was thinking this was a star trek thread
Being an ex-R&D engineer, I can have a qualified moan about the real world validity of the NCAP tests that normal people just cannot understand. The tests have also been used to restrict the number of foreign (non-EU) imports by raising the development investment required by the manufacturer in order to reach the standard. This is a legal, and technical method of market protection that is not immediately obvious to most consumers that buy into it.
I am also a father, and in 1998 I bought a Voyager for our main family transport. The vehicle was great and I had six years of trouble free motoring with no accidents, breakdowns or build quality issues.
For me, the number one safety feature of any vehicle, is the one that no manufacturer (yet) provides and that is the driver. Even the best drivers in the world cannot perform 100% every journey. In my opinion, the most dangerous vehicles on the roads are those containing arguing kids, or kids that are distracting the driver (crying etc). No NCAP test can save the family that is unlucky enough to experience this situation when the driver takes his/her eyes off the road and has a head on with a 7.5ton truck or heavier. There is a reason why the NCAP test does not simulate this accident.
Some people buy vehicles that are 5-star rated and from that point onwards are convinced they and their family will survive an accident and drive with this subconscious belief that they are safe.
A friend of mine lost her two kids in an accident like one of these. She shared the school run with her friend who was driving that day. She only survived because she was at home.
Not a lot of use testing for those kinda accidents, eh?
The Espace is still cooler, though
I think a lot of people simply choose to buy the safest car they can with the information that is available to them. There are endless examples of situations where you will almost certainly be killed in a 5 star NCAP rated car (driving off a very high cliff for example), but you want to give yourself and your family the best chance of coming out or an accident without serious injuries, and the reality is the most likely impact is a front or rear shunt into another car or a side impact at a junction. If it's a car hitting me I'd rather be in a 5 star NCAP vehicle, if it's a tank hitting me I'd rather be in another tank, but the fuel economy on tanks, along side the cost and parking difficulties put me off.
I got a Voyager 2.4 Diesel and its excellent! I really recommend it. Anyway, how can I post an ad? am new on this and until now I only discovered how to reply but I cant ... find the "add a post" icon!
Are you certain that is the reality? The only publicly available document in the UK that is likely to have the statistical analysis of passenger car accidents with other vehicles, road types, road conditions etc is STATS19. I don't have a copy and at £30 I'm not going to buy one this year either just to check.
I am not disputing that a 5-star NCAP rated vehicle is a good thing to have. What, I am trying to say is that some people honestly believe that they are buying technology that will preserve their life but this can only be determined at the time of an accident and not at the time of purchase. It's a bit like buying fully comprehensive insurance with the belief that you are covered for all risks and then getting killed in the accident and not being able to make a claim.
There is a point where the driver's sense of safety becomes unsafe. I think Switzerland has already got to this point, as every day I can look in my rearview mirror and see the face of the driver following me. My assumption is that drivers here believe that their cars are safe enough for them to do this. Otherwise why would they unnecessarily put the lives of others at risk so often by following so closely. There are more newer cars in Switzerland than elsewhere in Europe so I am also making the assumption that there is a higher importance placed on the NCAP ratings compared to countries where the use of cars 10+ year old cars by families is still common.
If you rented a car in another country, would you drive it any differently if you knew it was 1-star rated? If your kids were offered a ride in another parent's vehicle that wasn't 5-star, would you let them go? Do you check? Would you let your kids ride in the school's mini bus?
It must be the same one we had the pleasure of meeting, if sales of that car depended solely on his sales skills he wouldn’t have ever sold one. My husband had to ask him early on if he’s actually interested in selling us one (didn’t seem like it at all) because we’re seriously considering buying one. He simply said he’d never have a problem selling them. I found the situation amusing
I guess I must be in the 0.1% minority. I've lost interest making my point now but I'm happy with that.
That's interesting. Perhaps your attitude has changed over the years as you have gained more road experience and life committments. Could it be that your skill as a driver and skill at assessing risk is now playing a more significant factor in your personal safety and not the car itself? I doesn't sound like you would drive an SRI today with the same lack of attention with your family onboard.
I agree. I like the freedom of choice.
At the end I did buy the Chrysler at the end of March and this is my experience so far. I'd like to remind everyone that this is the new Voyager so basically I'm trying it out for them.
I did unfortunately have some trouble at the beginning, which they couldn't figure out till the expert came from the states and resolved it by changing a part (they gave me a Jeep for the day and did it quick) it also seriously eats up fuel. But I do love it maybe its a woman thing but the space is great and it drives beautifully for a minivan. It took sometime to get used to the size especially when parking.
The kids love the video screens, which we open on long trips and all the gadgets and electronic sliding doors etc work very nicely
Anyway, thanks for all of your input.
Do something. You'll probably be glad you did.
Call both a Renault shop and a Chrysler shop respectively , and ask them how much it would cost to so some basic maintenance. .. oh lets say change your brake pads and disks. Also be sure to ask them how much the parts would be.
Ask them how much they'd charge for a replacement alternator or to replace a electric window motor.
I believe the answers will help you go a lonng way in making your decision.
Chrysler will kill you on parts.
Renault is way better, 30- 40 % , at least it was some years ago when we had a Renault.
Japanese car dealers will deal you a similar crushing blow for parts . Brake pads for my Mazda MX6 . Just the pads front only... Chf 180 . Thats disgusting. Brake pads can be had for that car for USD 30 in the states. I bought them there and put them on my self. Both front and back for USD 75.
Its sick. I think an outfit called AMAG has exclusive dist rights for japanese car parts here and they are digging as deep as they can.
Chrysler just charged me chf 700 for the parts to swap out my cooling fan motors which were blown. and then another 200 something for labor.
(they say they were both blown, but highly unlikely, I know that at least one of them was in fact blown.)
A full replacement set, from car parts.com in the us , that means , both motors, the fan blades themselves and the cowl that goes around them. USD 230 !!!!
THIEVES..
Too late already bought the Chrysler
My 300M .
Lots of bang for the buck. Great car. Fit 3 big adults in the back in quiet leather clad luxury. Everything works and fits right and it cost me perhaps a 1/3 or less of what I would have had to shell out buying an european equivalent.
buy american. But dont get them worked on here.