I would have never ever dreamt of judging the UK education system after 1 experience, with one or two teachers, in one school, for a few weeks or months.
This is just not fair imhonesto.
I experienced 16 years of Swiss school in the 50s and 60s- then saw my 2 kids through the UK system, and also did a Teaching degree in the UK and taught in 4 schools long-term, plus did supply teaching in another 20 or more. Over a period of 39 years.
Is very difficult to say, I have heard both opinions. Honestly my feeling is that the system works, for some people may be not very fear.
Hope this will usefull
That does not only depend from a school to a school, but from a teacher to a teacher. Our teacher is a training specialist of our cantonal Haute Ecole Pedagogique, so she traines stagiers, new teachers that function as her TAs. I can't remember so much attention given to me when 4-5yr old,I am sometimes worried there is just too much pedagogy at such an early age. Some teachers or schools do not provide pedagogical elements, as you say, but speaking from experience, most parents have no idea what kids do at school.
To be honest, a three year in a local system isn't that bad, considering it costs 0fr, kids speak local lingo after that, which comes handy and actually can hang out with their classmates in the area they get schooled. I agree that when you mix the systems, it can be complicated. But I am glad I opted for local schooling, since after such a short time, our kid is impressively good at the local lingo, confident and comfortable with little buddies in the hood and even a house we live in and we walk to school with, every day. The drop off area at our local international school is a little sad, kids wait up sitting on a pavement, have to be choffeured around and delivered, and the radius of classmates is as big as 70km.
While I do not know details about the Swiss Education System, I have to second that putting pressure on getting into university can make you lose focus on what is truly "good" for you and for society in general.
Let me become more specific: this same situation applies in Greece and the Greek education system. There is a lot - but A LOT - pressure from everybody to get into university. Pressure from society (because if you don't get into university you're a screw up), pressure from parents (because we can't let the pesky neighbor's child get into university and have our child being out) and pressure from schools (to show to other schools that we get more people into university).
The demand is so increasing that for decades the greek maturité has been consisted of a general examination system to graduate from high school and get into university - and this examination system is such a hot potato that usually changes 2-3 times per decade. Thus, the whole education system rotates around the nationwide exams that people take when finishing high school, to get into university.
To make things worse, the expectations are so high, that the whole country is full of tuition centers, operating during after-school hours, oriented specifically in teaching children how to perform well in these exams - which a child usually takes on the year that he/she turns 18. Many parents are so obsessed to see their children get into university that send their children to tuition centers from ~12 years old (or earlier!). Not to mention that students start taking courses during their summer / christmas / easter vacations. And I'm not exaggerating on that. This pressure puts greek students to chew more that they can bite.
So, where has this led Greece? In having over-saturated universities and 55.4% youth unemployment. And, in the end, degree-holders end up doing jobs either completely irrelevant or just having the same payroll level as a young person without a university degree (and if they get paid, at all).
The deeper reason behind all this, is the pressure that is put on children to follow the "classic" jobs, i.e., doctor, engineer, teacher, lawyer. Even if a child wants to do something alternative (arts, theater, etc). This pressure is based on an old adage that says (literally) " Learn an art and leave it and if you get hungry, grab it ". In other words, there is still in society the belief that: " Only if you become a teacher/doctor/lawyer you will be able to 100% find a job. And, even if you decide to do something alternative, have a university degree, just in case you fail. "
But, in the end, these people with the university degrees end up in unemployment, as well.
It's hell down there. I've seen it and it's completely crazy. No matter how imperfect the Swiss system is, no matter how many issues it has that should be resolved, if no (such) pressure is enforced on students and alternatives like apprenticeships are encouraged, this is a good - good thing. Because the swiss system does not lose focus on the big picture: that it's not mandatory to get a university degree; you can live a very balanced life even without one.
Just my 2 cents, I have studied in Ticino so my perspective might be slightly different from the rest.
I agree with the problem of sorting kids at 12, back then (20 years ago, ugh) I did find it unfair (even though I had access to all the top classes and schools). However, for really motivated students, there are many ways to re-enter the "A-League".
All in all I think the Swiss system is pretty solid and well rounded, with a healthy balance of science and humanities. Also, it's hard to find another place in the world where a student will finish obligatory education with a working knowledge of 4 languages, which will put them at great advantage later on.
Swiss high schools are pretty tough, but the preparation for university is also pretty good.
I am not a fan of the Swiss uni system having studied in Italy, but the quality of the teachers and the facilities is excellent.
Dear folks,
thanks for your constructive criticism!
I will try to reply at everyone the punctual item by item.
Apologise me, I don't follow the thread each day.
Well, I'm interested in have a previous approach to the Swiss system because i don't know nothing about this and i want to know for my sons.
I'm Argentinian and the education in my country is different to other in America, but also are different to European.
The education is free.
We spend more years studying than EU and isn't strong in foreign languages, because everyone they speak the same language.
Also you can take very well courses if you want, but doesn't part of the standard education. Only english is part of the program.
We spend more years to obtain a degree because we do several work experience mixed with the theorical classes.
Obviously, there are private schools and universities, but isn't a better level education, only have complementary activities.
The private schools offer add values such as: foreign languages, some artistic things (theatre, sing, paint), and the techniques offer more hand-on practices than the public institutes. Only is this.
The fact is that here there are a lot of young people with fantastic degrees but without contact with the real word of the work. I think so.
Some of the very well and young engineers that I knew in EU, are well exams solvers...
In the case in which I had a company, I counteracts only one or two to work with me, and that's not good. So that, a lot of enterprises looking for young professional with a minimum the experience in your business because the companies haven't confidence that any student can easily learn the subject.
Mind you, it's just my interpretation of reality and may be wrong.
Well, their advantages and disadvantages, and consequences too. In Argentina, I've also had bad teachers and professors but when I remember of my students years, I remember a lot of good things. :-D
Odile:
About me, I'm a electronics engineer and also i do an international masters degree in mechatronics. I've studied in Spain and France.
Really , although I'm not good in languages (english and french). I've had not problems with the Masters.
I'm modest and don't usually say next, except when seeking job but... I was an outstanding student in both countries.
Also in my country of course, but my preoccupation is " I didn't a lot of effort to do this! ". Of course I'm not a genius ok.
Furthermore, I saw the rest of students in difficulties (a lot of nationalities) to follow several courses, and also they are engineers in yours countries, before to start the masters degree.
Ripley:
Excuse me, but I couldn't to avoid that some people are agree with you.
How many years is what you tell me, please?
Kristanez:
Thanks for yours two cents.
Has been important to me.
Yes, I love the idea that the university is not the unique way, and also is not correct for a child to choose your destiny at 12 years old.
In my case, my parents asked me and helped me (really, they took the decision in my place in this moment), but always I have the opportunity to change the way.
Stephen NE:
Hahaha. France university (or école) = 100% on cramming for exams
True story!
Is interesting for me, that you tell that "the system gives a real place to apprenticeships and training for manual jobs" . This is the better part of my education in Argentina.
Could you explain to me what kind of studies you mean?, please.
Possible in a private message if you wont.
Faltrad:
Thanks for your remark "opinions from teachers are not wanted, the OP asked student and parent experience only. "
I haven't educational formation, so that I prefer to ear not influenced opinions of normal persons.
Chemmie:
Thanks for your opinion. What do you like of the Canadian system?
Briefly, could you express 2 or 3 specific topics to compare with the Swiss system?
Mandy Moe:
Could you help to Chemmie please?
I think you are friend or more infos of the Canadian system.
OMG, there are other 2 sheets of comments ... well tomorrow I will continue.
Bye
Excellent dude!
All the best for your son ;-)
So is mandatory to buy some very good red wines to gift, at the end of the scholar year.
The age subject is a fact to discouss with the director, not with the teacher.
Is strange that the teacher permits his son to read german books in class, because their job is teach french!!!
Demand an extra support for your son, not an isolation.
Anyway, your son can read germans book in your free time...
I thought that this pressure is present in whole the world. In Americans films, you can see, saving money families for the university of your children's when just they are very young!
I other parts of the word, such as Chine and Japan. The engineers are very valued in the society and having an engineer in the family is honor.
I really like the asiatic vision, but I'm not impartial about this :-D
Never said that it applies "only" in Greece. Just that it applies *and* in Greece - of course, along with more countries across Earth.
do you think that an educational system thats designed to systematically cut people out like a hockey team is a nice one? i think the schools should be smaller and more intimate.
Size really depends on location. Here we have small primary schools with 15-20 per class - and the secondary school/gymnase (6th Form) is also small with very reasonable classes, and teachers who know every kid, including management. This may not be possible in larger towns.
My location may distort my view- but does anyone know of classes of 32/33 as I regularly taught in the UK, here in CH?
This is true, but more expensive.
In France, the classrooms are in general for 40 students.
Classes are 18-20 maximum around here too.
My nephew in the UK is in a class of 38.
Our youngest is in his 1st year of kindergarten and our experience has been interesting. For the most part the parents and other children have been very welcoming but the teacher seems a bit put out by my English-speaking family. I understand (as a teacher myself) that it is difficult to have a student in the classroom who doesn't speak the local language (and parents, to boot), but I also understand that it is my job to help them find their footing while in the classroom.
Our child has German lessons at school once per week, but all he's learned for the past several months is body parts--over and over again--so much so that the entire family knows body part vocabulary! After the autumn break, the classroom teacher told us she was only going to speak High German with our child to speed-up his language acquisition, which we were thrilled to hear. However, this week he has come home telling us that German for dog is dog, for Christmas is Christmas, and for birthday is birthday--all English words--simply said with a German accent
I know other folks here who are thrilled with the local school system. I guess like anywhere else the skill of the teacher figures heavily into how pleased one is with the schooling...
My kid had zero support in the first kindy, and now everyday a special French support in the 2nd kindy. The teacher usually adjusts to what she/he sees fit that individual child, I liked the fact my kid was given off time to settle in a new group and then a few of them, 2-3 kids, have a special tutoring on the side, while others play.
The system here has a lot of positives that outweigh the negatives. In particular, the traditional 'German' style of teaching in primary education which emphasises experiential learning and plenty of outdoor activity compared to US and UK emphasis on a sanitised experience where trips and non-classroom activities are avoided because of the legal claims that may ensue. They also avoid the heavy emphasis on frequent testing, school rankings and learning goals.
On the other hand, some of the worst failings come from the inconsistent way that schooling is applied across Switzerland. Particularly shocking is the variable quality between village, suburbs and city centre schools. It annoys me intensely that so many locals know so little about their own education system, the options available and the influence teachers have in streaming children. When trying to choose a good school, the most common response I heard when I first got here was 'don't worry, all the schools are good quality in switzerland'