And cold bedroom for me too- 16-17C is perfect - and window either wide opened, or if minus 20C - just slightly opened- or I wake up with a headache.
20C is plenty enough for a flat- put some socks and a jumper on- no-one has the absolutel right to live in shorts and t-shirts year round
And that is why we have managed to get 0-25C thermostats fitted in the new PPE flat where we'll be moving to. If you've never lived in a flat, it is quite difficult to conceive that you are not in control of your home temperature.
The heating engineer was not too pleased and explained the pros and cons, because of the underfloor heating, but tough luck, we get the final word...or temperature!
You clearly did not live in CH for long, most Swiss would think they will die at those temperatures
In a block of flats, the top storey is exposed to the cold through snow and wind (and to the heat in summer), and the ground-floor storey is close to the cold of the earth (or cellars). The flats in the middle layers of the sandwich are insulated by the flats upstairs and downstairs. Similarly, the flats in the centre core of the building are protected by the flats on the outer edges of each storey.
This mere physical fact has lead to countless disputes in blocks of flats, together with the fact that there are several systems according to which the total bill for the building's central heating is split across the tenants. In rented accommodation, this is typically tallied up in Spring or Summer, after the Winter heating season is over and the final costs of the previous winter are known. Then, the tenants will be required to pay in more, or will get a refund, depending on how cold/mild the winter was, and how well the landlord/caretaker budgeted and steered the central heating Equipment.
Some reckon that the heating costs should be paid in proportion to the numer of rooms or according to the number of square metres of a specific apartment, others according to the number of occupants or according to individual meters on each radiator. Others reckon that the tenants living just under the roof will be more likely to feel the need to turn their radiators up, and that those in the middle will benefit from this, and in turn be more likely to turn their radiators down. In some municipalities, there are laws about how the costs are to be apportioned.
What's to be done if you are cold in your flat? Dress warmly: long sleeves and long pants of warm textiles and as many layers as you need, plus socks and slippers. Maybe invest in some soft, lightweight cuddle blankets.
During the day, do not leave any of the windows open permanently, not even to ventilate. Instead, keep everything closed so the walls and everything in the room warm up. Then, every few hours (or when you come home when the flat has been shut up for the day), fling all the windows open wide, causing a through-current, for about 2 minutes or until you feel, when you stand in a central point, that the air in the flat has mostly been exchanged with fresh, cool air from outside. Then quickly shut everything up again, before the walls start to cool. In this way, the flat will stay warmer, but you will still have fresh air and will prevent condensation build-up.
Those 2 minutes blast are a good time to put the kettle on, to move very fast for that short time, and to make yourself a hot drink ton enjoy after you've closed the windows again.
Oh, yes, and about the costs: it is worth simply setting a few hundred Francs aside, earmarked for any top-up bill you may be issued at the end of the season. After you've lived in the building for a few years, you'll understand the trend of this bill, and know how much you usually get back or have to pay in. Once you've gained that experience, for any subsequent winter you need put more aside only if the winter is bitterly cold or the heating oil prices go up.
Not my generation! Our mums used to put our pram for us to nap, as babies, at the bottom of the garden, minus 20C to make us tough and healthy- 1950s Switzerland. And if it was cold in apartment, were told to go and put our woolie tights on (they itched to bu***ry) and another jumper. I can't bear overheated places ...
This is the first time I have had no control on heating and the coldest "hot" water I have ever had. They say it's energy saving but I feel like a child with no choice on the temp, and yes had to buy an electricity sucking fan heater.
In the UK the new builds have fancy temp controls in every room, wooooooow ay, and wait for it, smoke detectors even! I can't see why neither could jump across to here?
Sorry for being cynical, I just am shocked people can not be trusted to control the temp in their homes
To be frank, it also depends on how much body fat you are carrying.
How much it costs to heat, or keep warm also depends on the construction of the building.
Our place costs next to nothing to heat as it was built to Minergie standards with triple-paned glass etc.
So you ought to be comparing heating bills rather than the absolute temperature of a building.
We've got thermostats with underfloor heating. The idea is you set them and forget them. They shouldn't need changing and they don't work that well like that as underfloor heating takes a long time to react to a change in temperature.
The one in our bedroom is always off and the window open even in winter.
We set the boiler for hot water in our house at 60 C to prevent the growth of legionella bacteria. Living room, kitchen and kids' bedrooms we keep at 21.5 C, in our bedroom we turn of the heater and open the windows at night
LOL I can assure you none of us were chubby in those days- running, sledging, skiing (in the days when you had to walk up to the top to be rewarded with a ski or sledge down... on Sundays that meant a 3 to 4 hour skin up, then 20 mins down- 1 run a day) cycling, climbing trees- and my parents were always like beanpoles. I could count the number of overweight people in my village on one hand.
But there were only 6 of you in your village then
we're in a block of flats, so no control on either, we are fighting about the water right now as 36 at the hottest is nuts (they say the tank is hotter, but then why is the tap so much colder?)
It used to be around 20 but now it's been warmer, but if it's colder and you just feel cold you should have a choice! the bedroom is too hot at night on the flip side
nope, my native village /not where I live now) was about twice the size it is now before the Horlogerie crisis in the 80s (so about 3000 and about 10000 for the valley). Huge! But we digress.
Much easier to put a jumper on and decent socks if a bit cold - even if you take all your clothes off when it's too hot- it is the air that is so unpleasant - hate it. And such a waste of fuel/energy.
@BLP
assuming you've read the explanation, above, about the use of heating and open windows, etc. and about the position of the flat in the building, you will see that the way your neighbours and you consume the energy of heating the rooms and the water will be influencing one another and the overall consumption. If possible at all, I'd guess that enabling each flat to operate individually would require a much more sophisticated technology than most landlords could afford to install in most buildings.
Therefore, it makes sense to talk to the neighbours upstairs, downstairs, to your left and right, as many as possible in the building. Ask them if they feel their flats are warm enough, and if their water is warm enough. Of course, their opinions will be influenced by where they've lived before and their personal preferences. And also very likely by the position of their flat in the building.
So as to foster good relations with the neighbours, I'd suggest just asking, to start with, and being very mild with any concerns (not criticisms) you express about how you're feeling in your own flat. Just ask them, and listen well.
If you hear that 8 out of 12 of the other neighbours are satisfied with the way things are, you will probably have to accept that the caretaker is unlikely to change anything. After all, the caretaker would be unwise to alter a delicate balance with which most are satisfied, and thereby risk pushing up everyone's heating bill when it comes to squaring up at the end of the season. You also will not want those neighbours later complaining to you, if their bill increases.
If, on the other hand, most neighbours are just as unhappy as you are, feeling that the rooms and the water are too cold, that might well help you all to approach the landlord collectively, which would give you all a much, much stronger position for negotiation.
The much needed expression learned since we've been here: "une petite laine" *. Almost a topic of conversation in our village:
" Oh, you're not wearing une petite laine in this weather?
- Nah, we're hardy stock.
- Oh dear, you'll catch your death without une petite laine AND a scarf."
*Petite laine = a little woolly garment = a cardigan
Energy is wasted when heat dissipates through ceilings, walls and windows.
It really doesn't do this to the same extent in a modern building.
I'm not saying there isn't any heat loss but I bet an old building costs a hell of a lot more to heat and wastes a lot more energy to heat to 18'C than a new build does to keep the rooms at 22 or 23'C.
I'm not wearing a jumper in mine now. I usually do in the winter but the sun is shining through the windows providing additional warming. The heater valves are all off.
At the moment it is costing nothing to heat and I am wearing a T-shirt.
I have written to the owner but it's not been fixed, the "hot" water is just not hot enough.
For the temps, I get what you say above, but in 2016 why should it be like this? Why can't it be a system like other countries where we get to pick the temp we want? If we are sick and want it warmer why should we have to use space heaters?
I just can't understand in a new build why it's done like this. That is the main point. I know I can't change it
You could ask them what the temperature of the water is in the tank. If it is set too low you could pull the legionella card. They would not want their tenants to get sick from bacteria growing in their tanks, would they? 😜
I doubt he would care to be frank, but I have been asking this stuff for months, ASLOCA is on it, but we're at the court stage
It is - that's not warm enough. You prompted me to check mine and it's 50-55.
Also, just to stay on topic, my living room is currently 18 but I have the door to the balcony fully open and all the heating is off, and has been off for a couple of weeks. I like it cool.
Oh, ASLOCA is already on it.
Oh, you're already on the court stage.
Then, in that case, I would have thought that you probably also have most of the explanations in this thread from ASLOCA - already.