Whats the point of High German?

I have to agree with you on this one. I'm basically in the same situation. I really appreciate anybodys efforts to speak German. If at all some Germans like to "mock" Swissgermans for the way we talk.

Thanks Samaire..

I do give a try everytime I go to germany or austria and Im pretty sure my german is bad but they get my point and things go really smooth. I actually mix the sentences with english verbs or nouns if i dont know the equivalent word for it. The main reason I speak confidently there is because nobody knows me there.. I developed that fear of laugh because of my workplace and also people here in CH respond in more aggressive manner/look if they dont hnderstand what you say or if I dont understand what they say.. They get frustrated here waay too soon so I give up.

I can assure you I wouldn't laugh AT you. Maybe smile WITH you, but that's not meant in an offensive way. You really seem to be out of luck with your colleagues. Maybe you can try outside of your team here too. Don't let it discourage you. We all have to start somewhere.

A friend of mine is British and speaks a bit of German. We recently went to a restaurant and she wanted to order our food and tried in German. The waitress was really patient, though sadly, she switched to English at some point. I think it's a habit Swiss have, especially the younger generation that is a bit more familiar with the English language than previous ones. It's like switching to HG with Germans - it often happens automatically, even subconsciously. I do it too, all the time, unless someone tells me specifically that they want to speak German now.

Jup and usually that doesn't go down well

Hold your horses! You are making an assumption of a mindset that doesnt exist.. An example: i bought train ticket from sbb. Wanted to travel from eu city to zurich. The name on ticket is for a friend to visit me, the name was something like Daniel and was written like Danial. One letter difference, absolutely one letter typo/difference, but all other info are the same (birthdate etc). I was forced to buy a new one and first one was not refundable and when I said I want to fix the typo she said the rules are clear (showed me german rules) saying no exchange and no refund. I didnt want refund or exchange, just fix one letter typo. She refused. I went and brought professional translator and paid him 3 times of ticket price (on principle not on money) to go and translate the woman who suddenly stopped speaking german and when she gave him the terms and conditions 10 pages, on page 6 it was saying: you can change the name if it has typo subject to all other info are correct.. Suddnenly she refunded me the ticket (the cheapest one not the subsequent one that was double the original price).. This is a pure example of when they want, they talk english, else they dont understand it at all!

Another example: do you speak english (major body in CH)... Her: sorry, my english is truly bad. I hope you find someone speaks english. (Wow wow! Being able to say such sentence is considered B2 in english!!!)

OK I have to disagree with you on this one. Saying "Sorry, my English is very bad, hope you find someone else" is not even close to B2 in my book. I can say that sentence in about 10 languages, though I don't speak most of them to an acceptable level. And to be honest, even IF she spoke B2, depending on what that "major body" was, she apparently did not think she was capable of giving you the information she assumed you would ask for. I need to remind you that English is not a national language, so everyone in CH (or elsewhere) switching to English for you is a favor, not a must. On top of that, the Swiss tend to be perfectionist - if they don't think they can explain something in a way that is helpful or, for that matter, close to perfect, they'd rather not even try. That has nothing to do with you though, and it is certainly not an attack on you.

I think you're taking this far too personal. People are not out to get you. As others have said here, there's a difference between answering an easy question like "where is the next Migros" to solving a more complex issue. I speak Spanish to maybe B1 level, i.e. extremely far from fluently - can I order my dinner, ask for or give directions to a certain location, book a trip, read easy literature or instructions, answer rather basic questions about myself, have a conversation on some non-complex topic - sure. Can I respond to someone asking me in detail about a specific problem? Absolutely not. I may understand it, btw, but responding is a whole different category. I'm not out to get anyone though - I simply don't think I have enough knowledge of that language to answer most questions in a proper manner.

I am very terrible at languages (luckily I learned Swiss german as a child).

But what I do like to do, is learn 2 sentences (with as perfect accent as possible) in the local language to a foreign country:

1. Sorry, I don't really speak XXX language well.

2. I only know two sentences, the previous one and this one explaining it.

I've pulled it off in Spanish very well--and always get a lot of laughs, followed by fast conversation of which, I understand nothing :P

Trainspotter,

I didn't mean it as a personal attack, please do not take it to be one.

If I go to Manchester, and try to order a train ticket in German I suspect that there will be a high potential for miscommunication. I would be mistaken if I took one easily annoyed ticket clerk in Urmston as representative of ticket clerks, sales people in general, Mancunians and/or the entire population of the island.

Similarly, when you ask someone "Do you speak English?" you are asking them a question, their answer will be dependent on their self assessment their linguistic level. In general if you ask a stranger a question you should be prepared to accept their answer, rather than second guess them to have some hidden motive.

Throw yourself into the world and learn German actively. The world has a certain number of dorks, but this is usually an individual achievement, rather than a linguistically or geographically predetermined fact.

Your early experience will be fraught with misunderstandings and the whole range of human emotions, but if you stick with it, the linguistic misunderstandings will steadily disappear. There will still be dorks, there always will be.

Same, I have mastered these two SG sentences since I came here.

"Wämmer eis go ziie?" and "Ich han es bitzeli Chopfweh"

Completely useless without " 's Stange bitte"

Love it

Just for the record: there is no language without rules and system, even Swiss German. Some are the same as high German (Dativ/Akkusative after mixed prepositions), others are slightly different (some verb conjugation), yet others are very different (apocopes, epenthetic -n) and finally, there are some rules that are different than high German but common with many other German dialects (replacement of Genitiv with possessive-attributive structure in Dativ).

Of course, mother tongue speakers are not aware of them, but it doesn't mean there are none and good Germanists, including Swiss ones, know and can explain them. When writing in Dialect, the spelling is inspired by hih German and local old spelling traditions kept alive. It is not chaotic at all even if there can be a certain variety. Learning dialect rules is possible from a teacher with education in German language history and dialectology.

Alright, maybe you can compensate for it by making sure you have something very worthwhile and meaningful to say when you do try to say something. In which case, you need to get over the fear of trying for the sake of making an important point.

Language sometimes puts a person at a disadvantaged position when the other party has better command of the language. I'm not sure people are so eager to take a disadvantaged position with a stranger, until they get to know that person better. Some english speakers have a reputation of being argumentative and pushy about getting what they want, probably Americans. I have told some Americans and Brits I don't speak english just to avoid the hassle of dealing with them. It just simplifies things sometimes.

On learning Swiss German, I found Bärndütsch to be an easier entry point for learning than Züridütsch. The people from Bern are said to speak slower, and it does sound clearer to me. With other dialects I sometimes can't differentiate certain sounds well, such as a G, H, K or CH.

What hasn't been touched so far:

It's a different country with not just a different language but also a different culture with its own set of codes and Do's and Don't. As familiar as it may seem, there are many differences from where people come from, wherever that may be, including body language and in many cases a different kind of humor.

OP, did you get assigned a Götti (coach, literally "godfather") you can talk to about "soft" issues you may have? Often that would be an office member. If not, I suggest you try to either find one (eg. ask one of the persons where the personal chemistry is particularly good) or ask to get one assigned, including 2-4 hours per week reserved for you two in private time, and talk to that person about the stuff you mentioned here. Because you see, (presumably) nobody here knows how well people in your team or office get along, what kind of teamspirit you've got, who is simply an asshole if there is one, how you act and re-act and interact etc. As a consequence it's impossible to provide anything but very general advice, whereas a coach or similar could be much more effective; and s/he'd provide a reliable 2nd opinion.

For instance, recently immigrated EF member bicycle is unable to make friendly contact, as he laments in this thread . While what follows is just a wild guess, it may be that his body language and/or behavior is generally perceived as aggressive or obnoxious. Not because he wants it so, but simply because what he grew up with may be ill perceived here. That would explain why people avoid him even before any word has been spoken. Or perhaps he speaks way too loud (though that's more of a problem of US americans, rather than eastern Europeans). And since he seems to react aggressively (a quick and not necessarily accurate guess based on how he writes in that thread) he may well be in a negative self-reinforcing downwards spiral. But again this is just a guess, no way of knowing what actually happens, all we can go by is bicycle's necessarily(!) subjective description.

In a similar way, what disturbs you may be caused in a big part by some kind of misunderstanding or behavior that's not common, in which case only somebody present there and then can help. After all, if you were aware all by yourself you'd have adapted already. This also is just a guess which may well be completely unfounded.

Even if getting a Götti assigned doesn't solve the issues you mentioned, s/he can (and hopefully will) make your teamfellows aware of other issues, pinpoint not-so-appropriate stuff on their side without offending anybody, and still help you in the medium term.

As you probably are guessing already, most people around here including the vast majority of the locals are quite nice chaps

I indeed have that Götti; my 62-yo secretary. she clearly said on couple of occasions: you dont seem happy, its better if you leave <-- valid point and actually what brought me to write the original post

most of the people I know, including my gf, are usually not interested to listen to a situation that is not theirs, some of them might offer help (less than 1% anyway) but to a certain degree.

Just an opinion... Sometimes being around and among wrong/negative circles kills the potential in someone; and, sometimes those circles prey on unhappiness. It's just a language and trust yourself that you can do it.

most Germans know well enough about Dialekt -- Mundart -- Akzent of different Areas in Germany Austria Switzerland Alsace Luxemburg

Go to München Stuttgart Köln Leipzig ---- different cultures codes behaviours customs vocabularies and traditiond

OK, let's try this again:

Wife: I'm Swiss, Italian is a Swiss language, so I will speak Italian everywhere I go in my country.

Fact: While any Swiss worth their salt can speak some Italian, few of the foreigners can, so not only can they not speak Swixs Germzn, they cannot even speak italian.

Tom

Correction. Italian is an official language of Switzerland.

I'm American and was able to learn Swiss German and High German. Similar to you, I would ask a question in German and would not understand their answers. I would say "wie bitte" and they would say it again. If I still didn't understand I would smile, switch to English, and say "sorry my German is bad. I just started learning it". Doing this, I never had a bad experience and ended up dating a few of the people I met. The key is to know you are going to be terrible at first and own it, rather than being embarrassed or afraid.

If you want to learn Swiss German then have your girlfriend give you a 30 minute lesson everyday and be sure to record it on your phone. Then play it back and whenever you have free time. Also, print out pictures on flash cards and have her fill in the word and the article associated with it. This is how I learned Swiss German.

If you want to learn High German then you can easily find beginner's classes, which is what I did and work your way up.