http://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifie...index.html#a29 (Google Translate it)
Here it shows in Art. 29 that chains are only "mandatory" when there is a sign on a specific road.
I have seen no where that one needs to have them...
Source?
On some michelin winter tyres, you have 2 specific indicators:
The "arrow" to show the legal minimum limit of 1.6MM (equal or below= replace).
The snow flake which show when the performances won't be good over snow (= a strong advice to replace them since they are winter tyres...). It's 4mm.
http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/lear...hange-my-tyres
Also, as said before, even when it's a bit more than 4mm, the performances are reduced (it means it won't break that short, etc...).
The cops were out checking tyres yesterday. The Merc ML in front of me got a good feel-up but the copper saw mine and did not even touch them. Mind you, they were new in March.
And I'm not running winters yet and even though I'm off to Zurich for the weekend, I may not change before I go....I'll decide by Wednesday based on the weather reports.
The problem with jotting off a quick reply to a question. You are correct, chains are not a general requirement. I was thinking within the context of going up to a ski resort.
When the chains required sign is out (at the bottom of the road going up), you either have to have 4x4 (if the police are not there and they do not insist on chains) or you have to put chains on a regular car. This is the instance that you want to make sure you have chains in the car. Obviously, you probably won't need chains in a town like Zurich.
Here is what the chains sign looks like:
2 changes a year will cost over 120 CHF (for small 16" steelies) and well over 160 CHF for most cars. In the grand scheme of car costs that may not be much, but it's definitely something.
Being pedantic, they become harder to bring up to temperature, but not "ineffective".
Important remark about "snow". Someone driving in Zurich and spending most of his time commuting on clear roads could spend a couple of seasons and never drive on actual snow. Of course what's the reason of owning a car if you can't use it on snow in CH, but still the point stands.
If there's ice on the road, nothing bar studs or chains will save your ass. And when it comes to chains actually, you might as well have Zero Corsas under them (figure of speech obviously, but that would be funny to see )
It's important to remember that many people don't drive on snow that much. And it's also important to remember that a good snow tyre can get you very far even in ridiculous conditions. Last January in Brigels I took a wrong turn and ended up in a "road" that was more of a ski piste than pavement. with careful driving I got on top of a hill, and when I found some space came back down with no trouble. The car was not touching any pavement, fully on packed snow. My Nokians just pulled through and I was sensible (and possibly a little lucky).
I think that packed snow is not that much of an issue. Ice can be a lot more trouble, and as I said, no amount of tread will save you there...
Disclaimer:
please don't listen to people on the internet, do your own research and try to drive sensibly for the sake of your families and the rest of us. If you're not a really poor person (in which case you probably shouldn't have a car) don't drive with shitty tires and don't skimp on them. Worn out tires can be "safe" for a couple of rides until your new ones come in or near the end of the winter season, but please don't start a season with anything under 3mm because "legally you could"
Actually what you will often find is a little plate underneath it saying "Ausser 4x4" or some such which means 4x4's are officially exempt. If that little plate isn't there then it applies to everyone and the police will treat it as such. When have you ever known the Swiss police to use discretion in anything?
You can rest assured that the insurance company won't use discretion!
This is important!
I've had my car parked with the engine off, on an almost flat, but very icy road, start sliding towards a very steep gorge.
It stopped 2 or 3cm from the edge.
Regardless of the legality of certain tread depths, I will attest that if you go driving anywhere near the alps during the winter, you really should invest in some good winter tires. When making switchbacks off the side of a cliff you will appreciate the traction.
Thats a cheap torque wrench, but CHF 40 is way to expensive for a special alloy wheel nut. You totally got Switzerlanded on that one.
I'm actually thinking about going winter tyres all year round on my low km usage car. I can buy a full set of tyres for what I pay over 2 years for changing the tyres over twice a year.....
I'm just about to order 4 newies from ReifenDirekt, but see they don't have a 7% discount on at the moment.
Is this only for early pre-season orders (which I missed) or is it worth hanging on a bit (but not long, eh?) in case it comes again?
The last set I ordered was mid-late November time and there was a discount running then IIRC.
I did this last year with Nokians (good quality winter tyre) because I was so impressed in their handling and performance.
I also, don't crank up the annual mileage, and thought it wouldn't matter too much.
They just about made it legally(ish) through last (their 2nd) winter, before I put my summers on.
So here I am 2yrs. later having to order 4 more.
Your choice.
If you speak about pure, plain, flat ice, without any snow on it, then I agree.
Snow is just one extreme to be considered as winter condition.
Indeed, there are many other possible winter conditions:
- Just low temperature (below 7 C), even on dry streets can be considered as "winter condition" (especially in combination with the points following)
- Rain , wet streets on low temperatures
- Snowrain : rain between the condition of snow and plain rain (probably around 0 C)
- Slush (German: Matsch(schnee))
- Black Ice : very thin ice you can not even (easily) see if you would stop there, usually appears after a sunny day with temperatures on sunny spots above 0 C, then after the sun has been disapeared a very thin water film has been frozen (because of rain, melted snow on the street or flowing in from road board) ; but also possible even during a sunny day in shadowy spots. And since the tarmac is not completely even (with very small crumbs on the surface) the though reduced traction can still be much better with winter tires!
- Broken ice, combined with snow, rain, slush etc.
- Thick ice with a rough surface, eventually covered with snow
- Mainly snow covered roads
The whole thing is not about "white or black" (dry street vs. snow covered street), but there are many other possibilities, and often you encounter several of the listed conditions during a day , depending on where you drive i this fast condition changing country and how weather develops! And you should be prepared for anything. During winter season you are just in a much better position with winter tires for most occasions.
[QUOTE=Don Molina;2268952]My Nokians just pulled through and I was sensible (and possibly a little lucky).
Glad to see Nokians mentioned a few times. They pretty much invented winter tires. They have 2 production sites: one in Finnland and one in Russia. So they know what they're doing. For my winter tires, I did extensive research and it seems that Nokians have the best value. The last issue of Autobild magazine in Germany ranked Nokian #1 for winter tires.
I sounds like a cheerleader, but I believe they are good products. Just don't ever buy Bridgestone.
[QUOTE=darwiniandemon;2269274] Don't ever scrimp on safety. You shouldn't use winter tyres in summer as braking distance is increased.
I use these:-
http://tires.about.com/od/Tire_Revie...eliitta-R2.htm
and these as Nokians not available in my tyre size for the second car.
I was going to repeat order Nokian W3's, but just had a quick lookie-looks at other possibles on ReifenDirekt, for my size and see that Toyo Snowprox S943 about match ratings and reviews with the Nokian (on RD site, at least), so am researching a bit more, as for 4, there's the best part of 100chufs saving.
I've used Toyo before, in the past, as an alternative to P6's on a sports saloon and wasn't disappointed.
[QUOTE=darwiniandemon;2269274] Nokians are probably the best winter tire money can buy, but no need to discount Bridgestone Blizzaks, they are very good snow tires. The Michelin X-Ice is good as well, Conti makes a good set as well. A dedicated snow tire works wonders. Kumho is a solid too, at a good price point generally.
More important than any specific tire metrics: Use your head when driving on snow, and perhaps fine an empty lot with snow on it to practice drifts, loss of traction, emergency braking, etc. Doesn't matter what tires you have on your car if you drive like an idiot in poor conditions, or have no experience with a car that loses traction and grip. Hopefully practicing in an empty lot is not illegal in Switzerland... but I can imagine it is!
...they are made by Nokian in Finnland.
If I had a second set of rims with fitted tires I'd do it myself, as I have done before. I do a lot of work on my own on the car. But balancing tires I prefer to let someone else do it sine renting the equipment is marginally cheaper so it's not worth it. And since I've got only one set of rims and to sets of tires I'm kinda screwed.
Nokian W3 all the way baby. I like they're getting a lot of deserved love. I also liked some Michelin Pilot Alpin I had on my BMW in my first year. Next set are definitely Pirelli. I've been hearing great stuff for the Sottozeros
I have been changing tyres all by myself and store them in my garage. It saves me overall CHF400 a year, which BMW dealer would have charged over the same period of time. Also replaced one Xenon and other small DIY maintenance. It's fun, not to mention sense of self accomplishment. All you need is a car jack and decent set of automobile tools.